Has anybody changed their vote about independence??

[kenny]

Who labelled Westminster "tape-enabling"?

sellotape or VHS

[campbell]

Thank you Kenny. Now fixed!

Auto corrupt and failing eyesight I'm afraid

[campbell]

And what a poor standard of writing in that article too. I couldn't finish it.

[kenny]

Thank you Kenny. Now fixed!

Auto corrupt and failing eyesight I'm afraid

'Sake. That now ruins my light hearted joke about serious stuff (yes I acknowledge it's a very sensitive issue before anyone jumps on their high horse).

Auto corrupt, is that a euphemism for wanking?

[campbell]

Lol. You're doing fine. I liked the tape joke!

[thinfourth]

Hm. Well I'll take your word for it. Just note that rape refs are off limits here.

Cheers

Why?

As the SNP and it supporters will be using the "rape clause" to say why scotland should be independent

What is the rape clause?

SNP version = I am not entirely sure but it ranges from an extra tax on any women who has been raped through to a crushing policy of making women prove they are raped by a humiliating interview to fill out a 8 page form on every detail on how they were raped and by who

My version = In 2015 the tory government brought in a policy of limiting tax credits to the 2 first births. They have brought in a clause where is a women was forced to have a 3rd birth due to an abusive relationship or rape then they can apply for tax credits for the 3rd birth. To get this an 8 page form is filled out. Pages 1 to 4 are preamble, pages 5 to 7 are filled in my a medical professional or a social worker. page 8 is filled out by the claimant.

the hugely humiliating information they must provide is the following

Their name
Their national insurance number
Their address
The childs name

and 2 signatures

one to say the information provided is correct and the 2nd to say they are no longer living with the childs father


So when a SNP candidate knocks on your door and say that the tory rape clause should be scrapped. i would be tempted to ask why are they mentioning the rape clause and are not mentioning the limit on tax credits to 2 births

[campbell]

As a moderator I merely wanted to avoid any more members being removed as a result of abuse / misuse of the term.

Debating the issue you describe is fine I'm sure.

We just ask people to stay respectful.

[thinfourth]

Okay

I won't misuse tape

[Corranga]

It's a sticky situation..









I'm here all week!


Nice of May to turn down the televised TV debate. I think they should do a HIGNFY on her:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3azcyu
A Teresa May cardboard cutout with the camera pointing at it, and the host asking her for an opening statement + 15 seconds time should do it.

For a Prime Minister to ignore the medium that most of the electorate will chose to engage with is pathetic.

[Rosssco]

For a Prime Minister to ignore the medium that most of the electorate will chose to engage with is pathetic.

Perhaps, but I've found all the televised debates only mildly entertaining, but pretty much useless with regards to actually delivering any relevant information or debate.. They are just an advert for the best orator, hence Salmond and Nippy usually do pretty well in them as their arguments are simplistic (and often very vacuous) which appeals to the layman.

As I said, reasonable entertainment value.

[Shug]

For a Prime Minister to ignore the medium that most of the electorate will chose to engage with is pathetic.

Perhaps, but I've found all the televised debates only mildly entertaining, but pretty much useless with regards to actually delivering any relevant information or debate.. They are just an advert for the best orator, hence Salmond and Nippy usually do pretty well in them as their arguments are simplistic (and often very vacuous) which appeals to the layman.

As I said, reasonable entertainment value.

Boom.

Not responded really to this thread as I have nothing to add on the political discussion. The point above however, absolutely spot on. I think the televised debates have been a symptom of the dumbing down of politics and the broadening of engagement. Is that a bad thing? In some ways, I think it is.

The whole issue with politics is that there are no right answers, no simple fixes and no black and white discussions. All the telly debates can do is try to make these artificially and will therefore artificially reward the simplistic view. The "average" member of the public has no desire or capacity to absorb themselves in the deeper discussion - it could be argued that this is what politicians are paid to do. Televised debates are not set up to let said politicians put forward their views in a clear way, to allow the average punter the ability to choose, but to create a battlefield where the quickest thinker on their feet with the simplest to assimilate rhetoric will "win". Great for people like the SNP or UKIP with a simple to convey emotive message, poor for deeper, more complex issues.

What's the answer? That, I don't know. That's the problem, isn't it? We have a laundry list of broken systems and nobody has an answer on how to fix them... Meanwhile the country spirals to destruction with all the politicians holding their hands up saying "But it's the public's will!"

[David]

Certainly it is my experience of working in the media, for too many years now, that political debate on television favors those without the responsibility of power. And however hard you try to get a balanced audience, they are essentially the extremist in their own political views (whatever they tell you). The open minded simply don't get involved. That inevitably leads the debate to become shallow and unbalanced - those in power having to continually defending their record, their decisions, and their policies, while their those in opposition are free to attack with impunity - they are the political terrorists, if you like, looking to recruit on a wave of propaganda and fake news.

[kenny]

As a moderator I merely wanted to avoid any more members being removed as a result of abuse / misuse of the term.

Debating the issue you describe is fine I'm sure.

We just ask people to stay respectful.

Too be fair Campbell, you just didn't get the relevance which I thought was fairly obvious given the very public abuse Ruth Davidson has been getting, and still getting. See BBC Scotland website for latest round.

I get that a rocket said something that clearly merited a ban recently but we don't need this nanny state 'careful now' stuff because one roaster has misjugded the acceptable boundaries. Give us some credit.

[c8rkh]

I was surprised to read this on the BBC of all places:

More than half a million jobs in Scotland are supported by sales to the rest of the United Kingdom, according to analysis from economists.
The Fraser of Allander Institute study estimated that about 530,000 jobs were directly or indirectly related to sales from Scotland to the rest of the UK.
This was more than four times greater than the 125,000 jobs linked to the rest of the European Union.
The research was commissioned by the UK government.
The Scottish government said the findings ignored the fact that trade was a two-way process.
The UK government had asked the institute to estimate the number of jobs in Scotland linked to the demand for exports from the rest of the UK, the rest of the EU and other international exports.
Fraser of Allander said its economists used the most recent input-output data published by the Scottish government - for 2013 - alongside the Scottish government's export statistics to compile the report.
It concluded that in 2013:
528,707 jobs were supported by exports to the rest of the UK
125,206 to the rest of the EU
177,553 to the rest of the world.
It said this meant that 24% of Scotland's total employment was supported by trade with the rest of the UK. The equivalent figure for trade with the rest of the EU was 5.7%, and for the rest of the world was 8.1%.

[campbell]

Storm in a teacup then Kenny.