Has anybody changed their vote about independence??

[BiggestNizzy]

@Steve_Weegie given the number of Scots who join me flying down from Edi to LHR every Monday I would say that a significant number of highly paid Scots DO rely on London and the SE for a significant wedge of their income and slice of their job.

The whole of the UK benefits from London and the SE, including Scotland.

This is True, It is worth noting that London gets as much in infrastructure spending as the rest of the UK combined. This is only matched by the rest of the UK as we are building Hinkley point. If any region of the UK had this level of sustained invesment then I imagine they would would be doing better.

Help us to understand where the replacement for this income is going to come from?

Scotlands Economy is linked to oil and gas production, we are currently in a dip and could be for a good few years still. It will however go up the secret is diversification and we have the rest of the UK to thank for that while it is in a dip. As a country we have to use the good times to 1 fund the bad, and diversify our industry for the bad times.

Help us to understand how being out of the rUK and on the fringe of the EU will help us trade.

Our biggest trading partner is all about free trade (unless they wan't to be vindictive. and who want to be in bed with someone vindictive) )so I don't see any problems with that. Coupled with a massive market and using the Eu to our advantage this should be better the UK has been sh*t at using the EU for our benefit where our other partners have been fantastic, that is why we get a rebate! we don't use the EU they give away free money and we don't want it!

Help us understand how as London's financial sector is decimated by Brexit, Scotland's won't be obliterated.

This is likly to happen either way.

Help us to understand how we will replace Scottish Government income from the EU and Westminster with other income, immediately, not in 5 or 10 years, to safeguard front-line services in Health, Education, Policing and local government.

Do what the UK does now - Borrow, Borrow, Borrow we can't afford these things now!

Help us to understand what currency we will be using.

$, £ or euro. We can use any currency we like we just don't have control of a central bank. But then their are 30+ other countries doing this so why should it be a problem?

Let's stop comparing with rUK and focus on the real questions. You know the hard ones. That need real hard answers. I'm sure the silence will be deafening. It's time for the Independence supporters and leaders to provide definitive answers rather than waffle and deflection. I'll wait in hope for that.

I'm a remainer and UK federalist

[c8rkh]

Help us to understand where the replacement for this income is going to come from?

Scotlands Economy is linked to oil and gas production, we are currently in a dip and could be for a good few years still. It will however go up the secret is diversification and we have the rest of the UK to thank for that while it is in a dip. As a country we have to use the good times to 1 fund the bad, and diversify our industry for the bad times.

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It is linked but it is a declining industry long term. What about the impact of decommissioning? Currently the costs for this are borne by the UK as whole, but would not an independent Scotland be liable for the share that was deemed to be in the Scottish area of the shelf? How are we going to fund that going forwards? Yet again, the answer here is that the mistakes of the past are referred to to as opposed to a real answer on the solution GOING FORWARDS. This is the problem, as always, there is no ANSWER yet so blame the past / Westminster/rUK.

Help us to understand how being out of the rUK and on the fringe of the EU will help us trade.

Our biggest trading partner is all about free trade (unless they wan't to be vindictive. and who want to be in bed with someone vindictive) )so I don't see any problems with that. Coupled with a massive market and using the Eu to our advantage this should be better the UK has been sh*t at using the EU for our benefit where our other partners have been fantastic, that is why we get a rebate! we don't use the EU they give away free money and we don't want it!


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Hang on. Is this saying our biggest trading partner is the EU because that is pure bill sh*t! We trade over 4 times more with the rUK than we do with Europe and that is a clear and demonstrable an evidenced based fact. You seem to also be assuming, which is very presumptive, that we will, as a n independent nation be in the EU from day 1? What is this based on? Where has this been confirmed? Yet again, there is no evidence or facts to back up the presumption so here we go again and yet another indication of using negativity against the UK/rUK to deflect from th fact that there is no answer. Do you really believe this stuff? Do you really believe the rest of us are that gullible we believe it to? Facts please. What will it be?

Help us to understand how we will replace Scottish Government income from the EU and Westminster with other income, immediately, not in 5 or 10 years, to safeguard front-line services in Health, Education, Policing and local government.

Do what the UK does now - Borrow, Borrow, Borrow we can't afford these things now!


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That's not plan and who are we going to borrow off as an independent country? also, at what rates given our credit rating based on current deficit is likely to be junk and we don't have our own fiscal autonomy (if we use the £, we are the mercy of the rest of the UK with no say / if we use the Euro, we are at the mercy of the EU with no say). We cannot afford the interest w pay now, as soon as we go independent our current interest rate on our debts will increase and the cost of more borrowing, if we can even get it, will be higher. Is this really a sustainable and sensible plan?


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I just don't see how what you are proposing make sense in any way shape or form. I may well be being totally thick here but the approaches are above are either a wind-up (fair dinkum) or just nonsense. Either way, we're never going to agree based on this and so I guess we just need to agree we are both right!

[BiggestNizzy]

Help us to understand where the replacement for this income is going to come from?

Scotlands Economy is linked to oil and gas production, we are currently in a dip and could be for a good few years still. It will however go up the secret is diversification and we have the rest of the UK to thank for that while it is in a dip. As a country we have to use the good times to 1 fund the bad, and diversify our industry for the bad times.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is linked but it is a declining industry long term. What about the impact of decommissioning? Currently the costs for this are borne by the UK as whole, but would not an independent Scotland be liable for the share that was deemed to be in the Scottish area of the shelf? How are we going to fund that going forwards? Yet again, the answer here is that the mistakes of the past are referred to to as opposed to a real answer on the solution GOING FORWARDS. This is the problem, as always, there is no ANSWER yet so blame the past / Westminster/rUK.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Decommisioning costs have been paid to the UK goverment in the way of taxes, this is claimed back by the companies when they do the decommsioning work. The Uk as a whole benefited from the taxes so it should stump up the decommsioning costs as a whole.

Help us to understand how being out of the rUK and on the fringe of the EU will help us trade.

Our biggest trading partner is all about free trade (unless they wan't to be vindictive. and who want to be in bed with someone vindictive) )so I don't see any problems with that. Coupled with a massive market and using the Eu to our advantage this should be better the UK has been sh*t at using the EU for our benefit where our other partners have been fantastic, that is why we get a rebate! we don't use the EU they give away free money and we don't want it!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hang on. Is this saying our biggest trading partner is the EU because that is pure bill sh*t! We trade over 4 times more with the rUK than we do with Europe and that is a clear and demonstrable an evidenced based fact. You seem to also be assuming, which is very presumptive, that we will, as a n independent nation be in the EU from day 1? What is this based on? Where has this been confirmed? Yet again, there is no evidence or facts to back up the presumption so here we go again and yet another indication of using negativity against the UK/rUK to deflect from th fact that there is no answer. Do you really believe this stuff? Do you really believe the rest of us are that gullible we believe it to? Facts please. What will it be?
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I didn't mention the EU our biggest tade partner is the UK, and our current goverment is all about free trade and building trading relationships with the world. Your jumping to conclusions.

Help us to understand how we will replace Scottish Government income from the EU and Westminster with other income, immediately, not in 5 or 10 years, to safeguard front-line services in Health, Education, Policing and local government.

Do what the UK does now - Borrow, Borrow, Borrow we can't afford these things now!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That's not plan and who are we going to borrow off as an independent country? also, at what rates given our credit rating based on current deficit is likely to be junk and we don't have our own fiscal autonomy (if we use the £, we are the mercy of the rest of the UK with no say / if we use the Euro, we are at the mercy of the EU with no say). We cannot afford the interest w pay now, as soon as we go independent our current interest rate on our debts will increase and the cost of more borrowing, if we can even get it, will be higher. Is this really a sustainable and sensible plan?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Same as everyone else you issue bonds on the open market. Yes as you don't control the currency you can't just print money to pay it off but we all know that is suicide anyway. As for ratings I am not a ratings agency so I don't know what what it will be. I know that the UK has a large deficite. Is the current situation sencible or sustainable - No.

I just don't see how what you are proposing make sense in any way shape or form. I may well be being totally thick here but the approaches are above are either a wind-up (fair dinkum) or just nonsense. Either way, we're never going to agree based on this and so I guess we just need to agree we are both right!

Your rght there is no middle ground on this, wither it is Brexit or Independance both views are polls apart. As mentioned I am a remainer who wants a federal UK splitting up England into more managable chunks

[c8rkh]

At least we could have the debate without the mud slinging and insults. Thanks for that! It shows it can be done even when views are poles apart!

[campbell]

Yup. Bravo lads. More like this, ta

[BiggestNizzy]

I would like to add that their is no silver bullet that says either side is correct. As with most things important it is a highly complex issue that probably has no right or wrong answer. We should be able to rely on the press to cut through most of the sh*t and give us something to work with but that doesn't happen anymore (not even sure it did to be fair bit we all have a romantic notion of the journalist cutting through the lies and getting to the truth) regardless of what happens with independence / Brexit it will be spun by those who have an agenda to sell. The takeover of ARM is a prime example of what we can expect regardless. One side saying that it shows the UK is open for business and that a dropping £ is a good thing the other talking out forign companies swooping in and gobbling up the shinning light of UK computer tech. ( good interview with the designer on YouTube btw and it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread)

One last thing is don't week out people who agree. With you as that is terribly boring.

[Corranga]

I chuckled at the press treatment of the ARM takeover too, and I agree that there isn't a right or wrong answer, as I believe, as a country (indeed either the UK, or Scotland) we will do what we have to to make a success of our country given the circumstances. What I don't like is how the spin turns to lies, and the facts are distorted in order to pull the popular vote, and I'm not solely talking numbers on the side of red buses!

[c8rkh]

I agree that with Corranga 100%. Many things were said by both sides in Indyref1 as "facts" but were instead, often, just blatant lies at best. The problem is that they get away with it as there really is no way to truly hold them, our politicians, to account. I mean, maybe we should bring back public floggings when we find out a politician has lied. But then, when all the current ones have been flogged for all the lies they've told us, i guess no-one else would step up in to the role. I mean, politicians who only told the truth, said things as they really were. nah, it'll never catch on.

[Rosssco]

I think this should provide more clarity on the direction the UK will take.. A nice silver-lining would be to see the SNP's fairly useless '56' reduced in number somewhat..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39629603

[c8rkh]

Anyone see the programme the other week on the SNP's youngest MP at Westminster and how she hates it and cannot wait to get out? Just doesnae' understand what, and how it works, a democracy is. Bloody typical of the "you owe it to us youngsters" generation we have created.

[BiggestNizzy]

I think this should provide more clarity on the direction the UK will take.. A nice silver-lining would be to see the SNP's fairly useless '56' reduced in number somewhat..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39629603

I think this is more about taking advantage of Labours self destruction and trying to give her some sort of mandate for the clusterf*ck that is coming. They will be hoping to ride out the post Brexit mess and be able to spin whatever the situation is in 5 years time to their benefit.

I do worry that she says one thing one week then changes her mind the next. I also wonder what more clarity we need? we are heading for Brexit head first, that will not change.

[campbell]

I just watched Sturgeon's reaction interview. The hypocrisy is hilarious.

I like May for her candour. And bravery.

[Corranga]

Could be interesting. Recent times have certainly not favoured decisions on votes made by Tory PMs, though this time around, I suspect we'll see exactly what is being predicted - stronger Tory support overall. Labour is in tatters, and even if there is a shift towards the Liberals, they are so non-existent now that it doesn't really matter.

The most interesting bit (and indeed, in-keeping with this thread) is what will happen up here. If Scotland continues to be as polarised as previous votes, not much will change. If the SNP get a fair wack of seats, does that give Sturgeon the backing required for Indy Ref 2? I'd imagine that they won't do as well as before, but will still have most of the seats, so hard to say. Can't see Scot's rallying behind the Tories, Labour is even more non-existent up here than south of the border...

One thing is for sure, the country is going to be talking politics for a good while longer!

[Rosssco]

I think if it gives the PM a mandate to act independently of the harder-line Tory back-benchers, and seek a more compromising "softer" Brexit, then I think that will be generally positive. She's at their behest currently due to a fairly slim majority, and I don't think May and her cabinet want the hard Brexit they are being accused off by political opponents, but she's trying to juggle various competing demands. At least a GE should provide a mandate (or otherwise) of sorts.

I couldn't see Sturgeon calling a snap election to essentially ratify her Indyref2 ambitions as she knows she'd probably loose MSP's and her voting majority.

I don't think the SNP will loose many seats, but a few. Of course the return of 40+ MP's will be spun by the SNP as a ringing endorsement of their Indyref2 calls, and of course, an excuse to highlight our differences, but then anyone with any common sense has all but switched off from their constant search for excuses to hold one.

[BiggestNizzy]

I like May for her candour. And bravery.

Trolling surely? May is the master of not answering a question, nothing brave about calling an election when your 20+ points clear in the poles.