Has anybody changed their vote about independence??

[pete]

As a theory it's as credible as any I have read elsewhere.
Though I don't support independence this time round I do have a real fear I may end up on the loosing side again.

That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me.

Although it's not how I'd spell "losing".

[thinfourth]

As a theory it's as credible as any I have read elsewhere.
Though I don't support independence this time round I do have a real fear I may end up on the loosing side again.

The only side that will lose is Scotland.

Either way it will be close and it will leave either a poor and fractured isolated country.

Or

A very poor isolated and fractured country.

I imagine the brain drain is starting already.

[Mikie711]

For me it will be the tax. Now I know everyone needs to pay tax and the more you earn the more you pay but opening the gulf between tax rates that I will not take lying down especially if the difference between North and South of the border keeps opening up.

Pete, you had to go and spoil it didn't you

[j2 lot]

Hard to argue with Pete on his inciteful ramblings. Perhaps my only comment would be that Sturgeon was always going to say she was being ignored & not given a seat at the negotiating table whatever happened. That very bleating is what gives her the 'right' to act all indignant and petulant.
I say again though, I worry of what will become of Scotland if it gets Independence in the current climate.
Now off to work on an exit strategy..........

[campbell]

Ms Sturgeon says she isn't being listened to. Feels like hypocrisy. She isn't listening to people either. Hasn't been since September 2014. So how can she expect to be listened to herself?

I'm seething about the whole situation and don't plan to be so meek and mild about proceedings this time around.

Such a shame the minority SNP government can't be defeated on this since apparently the Greens have got into bed with them. Ah well. Where's my copy of the North Yorkshire Solicitors Property Guide...

[pete]

Ms Sturgeon says she isn't being listened to. Feels like hypocrisy. She isn't listening to people either. Hasn't been since September 2014. So how can she expect to be listened to herself?

I'm seething about the whole situation and don't plan to be so meek and mild about proceedings this time around.

Such a shame the minority SNP government can't be defeated on this since apparently the Greens have got into bed with them. Ah well. Where's my copy of the North Yorkshire Solicitors Property Guide...

The fact it's a minority govt isn't relevant, the parliament is pretty much designed never to have a majority and they have formed a coalition with a party who feels the same way on this issue.
They got 46% of the vote, Cameron only got 36% Uk wide and got to form a majority govt.

To whom is she not listening? Party have got to come first and she's claiming she is listening to the electorate who voted against Brexit. I know she should be listening to you, god knows I would, but she's not me Campbell.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't want a second ballot either but the blame cannot be laid entirely at Sturgeon's door, this was happening as soon as the Brexit result was known. The only thing that could have stopped it was some fancy footwork from May and I just don't think she, or anyone in her team, has the skills or possibly even the awareness. She should have read her Sun Tzu - I'm sure he had something pithy to say about that...

[campbell]

Understood, Pete. Ms Sturgeon not solely "to blame", lots of others on all sides are too.

That wasn't really my point.

It was just the hypocrisy thing. And the principle of "the will of the Scottish people".

She listened to their will by mining the data on the local detail of the Brexit result. Yet she didn't listen to their will on the official top line result of the Independence Referendum.

So is just digging round looking selectively for data that "gives a mandate".

#tired

[Rosssco]

Ms Sturgeon says she isn't being listened to. Feels like hypocrisy. She isn't listening to people either. Hasn't been since September 2014. So how can she expect to be listened to herself?

I'm seething about the whole situation and don't plan to be so meek and mild about proceedings this time around.

Such a shame the minority SNP government can't be defeated on this since apparently the Greens have got into bed with them. Ah well. Where's my copy of the North Yorkshire Solicitors Property Guide...

The fact it's a minority govt isn't relevant, the parliament is pretty much designed never to have a majority and they have formed a coalition with a party who feels the same way on this issue.
They got 46% of the vote, Cameron only got 36% Uk wide and got to form a majority govt.

To whom is she not listening? Party have got to come first and she's claiming she is listening to the electorate who voted against Brexit. I know she should be listening to you, god knows I would, but she's not me Campbell.

She is not listening (and hasn't since Sep 2014) to the 2M+ majority that voted to settle the matter then, but also has very selective hearing. She / the YESNP never dropped the issue (understandably, its their only aim in political life) and has kept it rumbling along until Brexit popped up. She also takes some major political assumptions to support their case - implicit that any one who voted SNP supports independence (maybe some, a good margin, voted because they promised to improve domestic services for which they already have control, which they didn't - the cat is now 100% out the bag - a vote for the SNP is a vote for Indy), and that everyone that voted to remain in the EU (like myself) are now so outraged that we'll now vote for two wrongs (IMO) to equal a supposed right... The SNP have crafted this scenario themselves (kudos to that), but we are facing Indyref2 on that back of a fabricated political case, rather than a self-supporting / self-evident one..

They then issued a document 'Scotland Place in Europe' which was essentially a political trap, as the majority of commentators will agree, the document contained mostly undeliverables by the UK gov. Editted to add that at yesterdays press-conference, Sturgeon refused to agree Scotland would seek membership the EU, just access the single market. So essentially the same thing the UK wants.. So we are having Indyref2 to vote on who negotiates with the EU - the world's 6th largest economy, or iScotland.. Doesn't take genius to work this one out..

[DDtB]

ahh but you're all forgetting......

as the famous quote goes... "A week is a long time in politics"... so a year or two is basically a lifetime... hence she's just calling the referendum as another once in a lifetime event!

simples.

[Scuffers]

As an Englishman, I don't get to vote.

if you held the vote in England, we would cut you loose, feeling here is we carry you too much financially and you are nothing but whingers and whiners, so good riddance etc.

If you do go independent, I give it 10 years before you're totally shafted.

[DDtB]

It's a shame the English aren't better educated really.


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[van cleef]

Who let the bundle of trolling joy out of its box!

[woody]

As Brexit shows, the English do like to look down on outsiders.

[campbell]

As an Englishman, I don't get to vote.

if you held the vote in England, we would cut you loose, feeling here is we carry you too much financially and you are nothing but whingers and whiners, so good riddance etc.

If you do go independent, I give it 10 years before you're totally shafted.

Simon. You may not have seen the following another similar thread:

* Moderator edit *

General point.

IIRC this thread and a couple of others like it got pretty heated last time around.

We had to take some action over recent abusive and distasteful comments.

Keep it respectful please.

Thanks.

[j2 lot]

Sadly Simons not entirely wrong though - because of the constant portrayal of Sturgeon being the voice of Scotland, the rUK do have us down as ungrateful cousins always wanting extra pocket money. That is her aim really creating enemies of our nearest neighbour serves to nurture unrest.