Nico Rosberg retires

[Shug]

1 year contract for Bottas. So end of season he gets binned and replaced by Vettel or Alonso .

Unless he out performs Lewis, but I'm doubting that. He didn't exactly annihilate Massa.

Agree, slightly disappointed in bottas' performance against Massa last year, was hoping for more of a young kimi or mika. Also Massa shouldn't have been brought back, should've taken a risk on young blood.

Couldn't agree more on the Massa front. Nice steady lad these days, but the fire went out long ago. Not one to drag Williams back to the front. It's hard to look at Williams and not see them in a holding pattern, rather than taking the big steps to improve.

Maybe that's the issue these days with teams that have huge factories, hundreds of staff and shareholders to think about. Sport is about risk, sound business is about minimising risk.

[campbell]

Also Massa shouldn't have been brought back, should've taken a risk on young blood.

Sponsors, Martini, need a driver over 25.

[Scuffers]

Also Massa shouldn't have been brought back, should've taken a risk on young blood.

Sponsors, Martini, need a driver over 25.

exactly...

And let's face it, Lance Stroll is not exactly going to be setting the pace...

Whilst I can see Williams need the cash, this is really not going to help them climb up the grid.

[BigD]

Also Massa shouldn't have been brought back, should've taken a risk on young blood.

Sponsors, Martini, need a driver over 25.

exactly...

And let's face it, Lance Stroll is not exactly going to be setting the pace...

Whilst I can see Williams need the cash, this is really not going to help them climb up the grid.

Fair points, I guess they have a split strategy with young and old but Massa?

[Corranga]

Massa knows the team and how they work, so will slot in with minimal disruption - is how I see Williams taking this one.
I suspect there is a decent discount / financial benefit from Merc too, and Massa was probably pretty cheap as I think we all know he retired because he lost his drive, not because he wanted to retire! I suspect they could also have called all their contacts in potential Brazilian sponsorship world too and round up some more cash.

Of course, the same thing is exactly why Bottas won't be much competition for Lewis (well, that and I don't think he is as good a driver).

Good on Merc for at least attempting to put someone decent in the other car. I don't think much better than Bottas was available to them really. At the same time, I guess they need to have a little bit of competition otherwise they are derided as the team that made F1 (more..) boring.

1 year contract makes sense, perhaps Williams want him back, or, more likely, Merc know that they can't completely undermine their young driver programme, and Werhlien will be knocking on the door for 2018.

I suppose Button would have been a better option for Williams, but probably brought no money and would likely want more cash than Massa since he's a former WC..

[Scuffers]

Also Massa shouldn't have been brought back, should've taken a risk on young blood.

Sponsors, Martini, need a driver over 25.

exactly...

And let's face it, Lance Stroll is not exactly going to be setting the pace...

Whilst I can see Williams need the cash, this is really not going to help them climb up the grid.

OUCH!!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... -final-day

Sure hope Daddy has his cheque book out....

just like Maria de Villota and others, they simply do not belong in an F1 car, they are simply not good enough.

It's a shame Williams don't have the cash to put a real young talent in the car.

[Shug]

Very interesting interview with Ross Brawn on Sky Sports F1 where he picked up on the pay driver thing as a key issue. Saying they will be looking at ways of ensuring that a driver's financial package isn't more important to a mid-low tier team than raw pace. A very interesting interview if you can track it down (was one of the Ted's Notebooks from Barcelona testing)

Of course, he also goes on to say that F1 is an oiltanker, but his approach is to make nudges and changes towards an end goal, rather than the tactics of the last 30 years of making knee jerk reactions to "fix" one thing that ruins another. Spoke a lot of sense and hope he's given the time and power to keep at it. But it's not going to be an overnight change.

[Scuffers]

He's right, but the root of the problem is the money one, the smaller teams simply can't survive without pay drivers.

unless they change the entire financial structure to stop paying Ferrari half the cash at the expense of the smaller teams, it's not going to go away.

(yes, I know that Ferrari don't get it all but you get the point)

[Shug]

Yeah - obviously he can't say how he's thinking of doing it, but that was the jist of his conversation. It was carrot rather than stick - so one assumes FOM are looking at better ways of distributing cash to help the grid as a whole and therefore the "show"

Cue Ferrari histrionics, of course, but the intent is clear.

[Scuffers]

We can but hope....

My beef is the lack of grid and the stupidity of mandating the most expensive powertrains in history thus making it totally unaffordable for a smaller team.

Pandering to 'green' ideals has done nothing for the racing (and arguably has just shown that is you have the money/resources of Mercedes, the others are left looking silly).

I want to see 36 car grids with pre-qualifying again.

[Corranga]

He's right, but the root of the problem is the money one, the smaller teams simply can't survive without pay drivers.

unless they change the entire financial structure to stop paying Ferrari half the cash at the expense of the smaller teams, it's not going to go away.

(yes, I know that Ferrari don't get it all but you get the point)

I'm a Ferrari fan, and always have been, and likely as not always will be, so please feel free to put this down to me being enthusiastic for my supported team if you like but...
It's really frustrating to hear fans of other teams going on and on about how Ferrari are given special treatment in F1.
They managed to negotiate themselves a good package that benefits them, and even with the extra cash, they still can't match the investment that Mercedes (and probably Red Bull) put into F1.
If you really want to push blame for smaller teams losing money, then talk about the F1 owners. Not only did they agree to the Ferrari deal, but they also milked as much as they possibly could from F1. They leave circuits in financial difficulty due to race fees, when you can't have a race without a circuit. They charge fans huge amounts for tickets, and for things like Android apps that should be free. They line their own pockets with pay TV deals at the expense of the fans and the popularity of the sport, and they let the little guys get gobbled up. It's a real shame that someone like Bernie, with his years of experience and virtually unlimited funds, didn't step in and save Manor for this season..

We can but hope....

My beef is the lack of grid and the stupidity of mandating the most expensive powertrains in history thus making it totally unaffordable for a smaller team.

Pandering to 'green' ideals has done nothing for the racing (and arguably has just shown that is you have the money/resources of Mercedes, the others are left looking silly).

I want to see 36 car grids with pre-qualifying again.

I agree with most of your post, but F1 has to pander to green ideas. It should be the pinnacle not only of motorsport, but of motoring. It is simply by association that money / resources of Merc have left the others looking silly. Had they decided to make F1 a 25 litre V16 quadruple turbo powered sport, and Mercedes decided to join in, we'd likely be seeing the same results. Of course, it's the move towards hybrids that pulled Merc in, and that is good for the sport (just like touring cars, the more manufacturers the better imo).

Pre-qualifying is a bad plan though, let the 36 race. Sponsorship and pre-qualifying don't go together, unless you really do want to see new teams appear and disappear on a very regular basis. No TV coverage = no point having your name on a car.

The thing that has really done nothing for the racing is the pandering toward aerodynamics. Even this year when they look to be taking a step forwards with more mechanical grip through wider tyres, they also make front wings wider and more complicated. It seems to me that 2017 is 1 step forward 1 step back instead of the usual 1:2 ratio for F1!
I hope I'm wrong and things have improved as like the rest of us, I love a good GP!!

[woody]

https://hasstrollcrashedyet.com/

Stroll has his own website already.

[BiggestNizzy]

He's right, but the root of the problem is the money one, the smaller teams simply can't survive without pay drivers.

unless they change the entire financial structure to stop paying Ferrari half the cash at the expense of the smaller teams, it's not going to go away.

(yes, I know that Ferrari don't get it all but you get the point)

I'm a Ferrari fan, and always have been, and likely as not always will be, so please feel free to put this down to me being enthusiastic for my supported team if you like but...
It's really frustrating to hear fans of other teams going on and on about how Ferrari are given special treatment in F1.
They managed to negotiate themselves a good package that benefits them, and even with the extra cash, they still can't match the investment that Mercedes (and probably Red Bull) put into F1.
If you really want to push blame for smaller teams losing money, then talk about the F1 owners. Not only did they agree to the Ferrari deal, but they also milked as much as they possibly could from F1. They leave circuits in financial difficulty due to race fees, when you can't have a race without a circuit. They charge fans huge amounts for tickets, and for things like Android apps that should be free. They line their own pockets with pay TV deals at the expense of the fans and the popularity of the sport, and they let the little guys get gobbled up. It's a real shame that someone like Bernie, with his years of experience and virtually unlimited funds, didn't step in and save Manor for this season..

We can but hope....

My beef is the lack of grid and the stupidity of mandating the most expensive powertrains in history thus making it totally unaffordable for a smaller team.

Pandering to 'green' ideals has done nothing for the racing (and arguably has just shown that is you have the money/resources of Mercedes, the others are left looking silly).

I want to see 36 car grids with pre-qualifying again.

I agree with most of your post, but F1 has to pander to green ideas. It should be the pinnacle not only of motorsport, but of motoring. It is simply by association that money / resources of Merc have left the others looking silly. Had they decided to make F1 a 25 litre V16 quadruple turbo powered sport, and Mercedes decided to join in, we'd likely be seeing the same results. Of course, it's the move towards hybrids that pulled Merc in, and that is good for the sport (just like touring cars, the more manufacturers the better imo).

Pre-qualifying is a bad plan though, let the 36 race. Sponsorship and pre-qualifying don't go together, unless you really do want to see new teams appear and disappear on a very regular basis. No TV coverage = no point having your name on a car.

The thing that has really done nothing for the racing is the pandering toward aerodynamics. Even this year when they look to be taking a step forwards with more mechanical grip through wider tyres, they also make front wings wider and more complicated. It seems to me that 2017 is 1 step forward 1 step back instead of the usual 1:2 ratio for F1!
I hope I'm wrong and things have improved as like the rest of us, I love a good GP!!

Personally I would let them use any engine size and configuration they like but I would limit the amount of fuel they can carry. I would let them run any amount of flow they liked on the fuel to, that way they can turn the engine up or down any time they like. Same goes for electrical power they can use it as much or as little as they like and when they want but I would only allow they a certain volume of battery. Finally I would limit the surface area of the front wing and let them do what they like with the rest.

[Scuffers]

I agree with most of your post, but F1 has to pander to green ideas. It should be the pinnacle not only of motorsport, but of motoring. It is simply by association that money / resources of Merc have left the others looking silly. Had they decided to make F1 a 25 litre V16 quadruple turbo powered sport, and Mercedes decided to join in, we'd likely be seeing the same results. Of course, it's the move towards hybrids that pulled Merc in, and that is good for the sport (just like touring cars, the more manufacturers the better imo).

so, if they all ran Chevy LS7's that cost peanuts and have similar power capabilities to these $25M units just how would that change the racing? (quite apart from they sound like engines not vacuum cleaners).

As for manufacturers, touring car is really not a good example, it's a joke these days relying on grid raffles etc to try and inject some racing.

Touring car died in the 90's (along with F1, group C, WRC, etc.), back then we had full grids, and some 13 full factory teams + privateers running cars people recognise, using their own engines, etc etc etc.

and before you mention costs, tell me, just what do you think it costs to run a current front running car these days?

[Scuffers]

Personally I would let them use any engine size and configuration they like but I would limit the amount of fuel they can carry. I would let them run any amount of flow they liked on the fuel to, that way they can turn the engine up or down any time they like. Same goes for electrical power they can use it as much or as little as they like and when they want but I would only allow they a certain volume of battery. Finally I would limit the surface area of the front wing and let them do what they like with the rest.

Kind of agree, although if you're going to go the green route, just give them X KG's of fuel per race and leave them to decide how to use it, if you want innovation, let them innovate, don't mandate limits.

Agree with your aero comment, I would just mandate a std front win (single element jobbie), they would them have to balance the rest of the car to match.