Colin, can you not push for another trackday at East Fortune?
I prefer it to KH.
I know you had all the complaints from local residents complaining of noise.
CADWELL PARK - November 11th Javelin
May I suggest you reread Phils comments. The MSA accreditation factor for his insurance is at the heart of this issue.
You will also read that those that cancelled earlier with unsurmountable car problems etc recieved refunds or cedits.
The insurance situation in my opinion was entirely forseeable and resolveable. Therefore not a valid reason for not taking part. Surely we cannot be responsible for asking all clients to check, read and understanod the T & Cs of their individual insurance policies.
It should be remembered there are two sides to every story.
You will also read that those that cancelled earlier with unsurmountable car problems etc recieved refunds or cedits.
The insurance situation in my opinion was entirely forseeable and resolveable. Therefore not a valid reason for not taking part. Surely we cannot be responsible for asking all clients to check, read and understanod the T & Cs of their individual insurance policies.
It should be remembered there are two sides to every story.
Hi Colin
Whatever happened as to why i could take part in the track event is mute now as u have my money and have had it for months.
It was not a good situation for either of us. My levels of risk were that such that I could not take the car on track without insurance. Your business head said no way can u loose out on money for that event.
I was most upset that you did not see fit to offer me credit, never mind a refund. I got nothing from this (and i was paying for a fun day!). You got it all.
I had to cancel my spot with SIDC this weekend past because I crashed my car and it has since been written off. John was kind in offering credit towards a future event, same as he was fine when I was ill once and missed an event that I was to pay on the day with. Repeat business to SIDC.
If something private and personal had happened to me that i did not wish to discuss with yourself, it seems that from what u are saying I would have had the same non-cooperative result I got from you the last time.
You indicate that you will give credit or money back if the reason for cancellation suits you. Logic then dictates that I should have lied to get my money from u. Can u see my point?
Its your choice Colin. You run ur business in such a way that if something happens before a track event that you run then you retain the option of keeping the money. I was honest with u. I tried to sort it by getting the insurer to contact the underwriters.
Notice that John contacted CCI when they said they would not insure people for KH. I, nor 4 or 5 others with AoN, didnt receive that level of support from Javelin. Where was the effort from Javelin to help their paying customers?
The resultant feelings and opinions that I have are valid, no matter how they occured. I was upset and still am that you kept my money and I got nothing out of that money except grief.
May I suggest that you become a more friendly company or over time there will be others like me who will recommend that people do not book track events with you.
There are always second chances - if you were to finally see sense and offer a refund or credit that I could then pass on to others then my opinion would change. Not a threat, is a fact.
Sorry for any bad tone in this post, I have tried to remain calm and edited this lots, as I did with the emails I sent you - however I am still fuming!
Phil
[edited to correct spelling]
Whatever happened as to why i could take part in the track event is mute now as u have my money and have had it for months.
It was not a good situation for either of us. My levels of risk were that such that I could not take the car on track without insurance. Your business head said no way can u loose out on money for that event.
I was most upset that you did not see fit to offer me credit, never mind a refund. I got nothing from this (and i was paying for a fun day!). You got it all.
I had to cancel my spot with SIDC this weekend past because I crashed my car and it has since been written off. John was kind in offering credit towards a future event, same as he was fine when I was ill once and missed an event that I was to pay on the day with. Repeat business to SIDC.
If something private and personal had happened to me that i did not wish to discuss with yourself, it seems that from what u are saying I would have had the same non-cooperative result I got from you the last time.
You indicate that you will give credit or money back if the reason for cancellation suits you. Logic then dictates that I should have lied to get my money from u. Can u see my point?
Its your choice Colin. You run ur business in such a way that if something happens before a track event that you run then you retain the option of keeping the money. I was honest with u. I tried to sort it by getting the insurer to contact the underwriters.
Notice that John contacted CCI when they said they would not insure people for KH. I, nor 4 or 5 others with AoN, didnt receive that level of support from Javelin. Where was the effort from Javelin to help their paying customers?
The resultant feelings and opinions that I have are valid, no matter how they occured. I was upset and still am that you kept my money and I got nothing out of that money except grief.
May I suggest that you become a more friendly company or over time there will be others like me who will recommend that people do not book track events with you.
There are always second chances - if you were to finally see sense and offer a refund or credit that I could then pass on to others then my opinion would change. Not a threat, is a fact.
Sorry for any bad tone in this post, I have tried to remain calm and edited this lots, as I did with the emails I sent you - however I am still fuming!
Phil
[edited to correct spelling]
Phil
Ford Focus Sport
Ford Focus Sport
Hi Phil
I appreciate you were honest in your reason for cancelling. I would expect nothing less from anyone. This does not however validate your lack of understanding your own insurance policy as a reasonable reason for cancellation.
The SIDC situation was entirely different. Insurance for KH had been pulled in the week prior for a variety of reasons. John was lucky that he was dealing with a switched on company in the shape of CCI. The withdrawal of cover at such short notice was something beyond both his and his client’s control. I believe I also offered you the CCI alternative at the 11th hour but you did not want to avail yourself of the service. Your choice. There were no unforeseeable circumstances at play in your case. You had ample time prior to the event to check and consider your position after you booked in haste to grab a place. Thereby denying some one else a chance to participate.
As an aside it may be worth noting and mentioning to Esteem that last week I believe CCI would have quite happily covered someone on a Javelin Trackday at EF but not for one at KH which by Esteems interpretation is an “MSA approved circuitâ€
I appreciate you were honest in your reason for cancelling. I would expect nothing less from anyone. This does not however validate your lack of understanding your own insurance policy as a reasonable reason for cancellation.
The SIDC situation was entirely different. Insurance for KH had been pulled in the week prior for a variety of reasons. John was lucky that he was dealing with a switched on company in the shape of CCI. The withdrawal of cover at such short notice was something beyond both his and his client’s control. I believe I also offered you the CCI alternative at the 11th hour but you did not want to avail yourself of the service. Your choice. There were no unforeseeable circumstances at play in your case. You had ample time prior to the event to check and consider your position after you booked in haste to grab a place. Thereby denying some one else a chance to participate.
As an aside it may be worth noting and mentioning to Esteem that last week I believe CCI would have quite happily covered someone on a Javelin Trackday at EF but not for one at KH which by Esteems interpretation is an “MSA approved circuitâ€
Interesting comments above. Personally I think Phil has let you off very lightly as I would have involved the trading standards.
It was advertised as a Trackday - is EF a recognised track?
I wouldn't think so given the lack of permanent buildings including no medical facilities and the bizare entrance and exit - it's more of a glorified sprint circuit.
Had it been advertised as an airfield day then everything you say regarding insurance would have been fair comment.
2p
Mac
It was advertised as a Trackday - is EF a recognised track?
I wouldn't think so given the lack of permanent buildings including no medical facilities and the bizare entrance and exit - it's more of a glorified sprint circuit.
Had it been advertised as an airfield day then everything you say regarding insurance would have been fair comment.
2p
Mac
S2 Elise (cobalt blue with stripes) - toy spec
Caterham 7 - hillclimb spec
Yamaha Thundercat - 2 wheeled toy spec
Caterham 7 - hillclimb spec
Yamaha Thundercat - 2 wheeled toy spec
Mac - I don't know the background to this and am not making any comment either way on Phil's issue with Javelin.mac wrote:Interesting comments above. Personally I think Phil has let you off very lightly as I would have involved the trading standards.
It was advertised as a Trackday - is EF a recognised track?
Had it been advertised as an airfield day then everything you say regarding insurance would have been fair comment.
Mac
However, I think you are wrong in your assumption that "Trackday" products imply MSA recognised tracks. It may be that many operators for whatever reason end up on MSA recognised tracks simply because that's the way their business works, but I don't think you should infer anything other than the presence of a marked off race track from the word "Trackday".
As a general rule I would also never assume any type of insurance cover from a policy without reading the fine print - there may be a miriad of other exclusions that will bite you should you need to claim. For those people that require insurance cover I think dedicated insurance is probably better value (in the event of a claim) and cover is certain (it's the only thing that is covered).
2p
Robin
Cheers,
Robin
Fair comment Robin, I have only heard one side of the story so probably shouldn't comment.
Just curious then if Javelin could explain their classifications as I've notice both "Airfield" and "track" days being offered and would like to know they define each.
Mac
Just curious then if Javelin could explain their classifications as I've notice both "Airfield" and "track" days being offered and would like to know they define each.
Mac
S2 Elise (cobalt blue with stripes) - toy spec
Caterham 7 - hillclimb spec
Yamaha Thundercat - 2 wheeled toy spec
Caterham 7 - hillclimb spec
Yamaha Thundercat - 2 wheeled toy spec
not too bothered about the introcacies - seems to me like a poor show, and the Company aren't really availing themselves particularly well by beating their chests on our forum.
I for one will think seriously about the treatment of a fellow S_E'er before I book on to another Javelin trackday.
I for one will think seriously about the treatment of a fellow S_E'er before I book on to another Javelin trackday.
Ferrari 458
Porsche 993 C2
Disco V
Porsche 993 C2
Disco V
*when* i get another lotus - i really want to get to other circuits! No more waiting around 
(really gutted i missed going up NW to skye etc in my car 
)
ive written the money off long ago.
the circuit/track thing i dont care about now either.
i dont care no more. ive far too much other stuff in life to think about. its in the past.
i cant recommend Javelin to people, and i wont book on a track event organised by them.
fair dos to colin for saying what he thinks.
i am sure they would organise an event for people and 99.9% of people will always be happy. play by the rules, which are clear, and ur ok for sure.
over and out
end of
no more
(really gutted i missed going up NW to skye etc in my car )ive written the money off long ago.
the circuit/track thing i dont care about now either.
i dont care no more. ive far too much other stuff in life to think about. its in the past.
i cant recommend Javelin to people, and i wont book on a track event organised by them.
fair dos to colin for saying what he thinks.
i am sure they would organise an event for people and 99.9% of people will always be happy. play by the rules, which are clear, and ur ok for sure.
over and out
end of
no more
Phil
Ford Focus Sport
Ford Focus Sport