Independence SE Poll

[Dominic]

But if everything is going to change whichever way we vote, why vote "yes" and guarantee all that expense? #devilsadvocate

Because at least Scots will have a say in what the expense is.

Do we not already? So we'll have more expense to continue having a say in... great!

[Mikie711]

But if everything is going to change whichever way we vote, why vote "yes" and guarantee all that expense? #devilsadvocate

Because at least Scots will have a say in what the expense is.

We have a say now. We elect a man or lady to westminster and they do as we tell them. If they don't do that we don't vote for them again.

Don't you mean the Scottish Parliament or are you expecting to loose that after a No vote.

[j2 lot]

Don't you mean the Scottish Parliament or are you expecting to loose that after a No vote.

Chance would be a fine thing

[Lazydonkey]

Don't you mean the Scottish Parliament or are you expecting to loose that after a No vote.

No we elect an MP to Westminster.

Thought everyone knew that

Indy is no guarantee that the views of the people will be listened to any more than they are now.

I voted SNP as they promised to reduce class sizes. Class sizes are now worse..... It's all devolved.... It's all in their remit and they still fcuk it up.

Promise one thing, get in and do something else. Or say it was too hard. Something like that.

All the indy promises are no more reliable than the Westminster promises and for that reason id rather stick with what we have.

We will still have liars and cheats in power but we will have saved a few bob.

[Lazydonkey]

Read an interesting article today that believes that if we go independent the Scottish government could do a deal that allows a currency union in exchange for allowing the UK to use faslane. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

[Mikie711]

Don't you mean the Scottish Parliament or are you expecting to loose that after a No vote.

No we elect an MP to Westminster.

Thought everyone knew that

Indy is no guarantee that the views of the people will be listened to any more than they are now.

I voted SNP as they promised to reduce class sizes. Class sizes are now worse..... It's all devolved.... It's all in their remit and they still fcuk it up.

Promise one thing, get in and do something else. Or say it was too hard. Something like that.

All the indy promises are no more reliable than the Westminster promises and for that reason id rather stick with what we have.

We will still have liars and cheats in power but we will have saved a few bob.

Never voted in a general election, waste of energy. Scotland has no voice in Westminster, never has had, never will.

All governments renege on promises, Scottish one will be no different.

At least they will stay in the country the are elected to Govern, maybe .

Read an interesting article today that believes that if we go independent the Scottish government could do a deal that allows a currency union in exchange for allowing the UK to use faslane. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

Depends who does the negotiating, SNP are anti nuke, the rest aren't so possible. Rather we didn't though, potentially better uses for that stretch of water. That and i don't see the point of nukes now, never did, just don't understand how mutually assured destruction is a way of fighting a war.

[tut]

You can not uninvent a weapon. Once they were there with one major power, the others needed them to maintain the status quo and hope that MAD would prevent them ever being used.

It got very close, but it worked.

tut

[Lazydonkey]

Each to their own but I've never understood the not voting thing. Especially when people are so critical of those in power. Your vote may not change who is in power but not voting defiantly won't.

SNP say they are anti nuke but how principled are they really? What if it's the only way to get the other things they crave?

[Scuffers]

You can not uninvent a weapon. Once they were there with one major power, the others needed them to maintain the status quo and hope that MAD would prevent them ever being used.

It got very close, but it worked.

tut

this ^^^^

other small issue is just how many scottish jobs will go if fastlane is closed down? can Scotland afford to lose that many jobs, not just the direct employees, but all the supporting businesses and local communities too?

I suspect shutting it down would be more devastating than Grangemouth would have been....

speaking from south of the border, I just do not believe Scotland can afford to go it alone, once you realise that all the 'green' crap you have up there is massively subsidised, a lot of the 'jobs' are public sector or highly movable, you won't be in the EU which will cause all kinds of trade issues, no £, etc etc etc.

funny bit is that if you polled the rest of the UK, the current feeling is they would be happy to see you go!

[j2 lot]

Sadly that is the fallout of Salmonds dream, there is division within Scotland and division throughout the UK. That and the cost of the referendum will never be recovered.

[Mikie711]

But if everything is going to change whichever way we vote, why vote "yes" and guarantee all that expense? #devilsadvocate

Why vote no assuming everything will carry on as before #devilsadvocate #devilsadvocate

I am more scared of what will happen after a no vote than I am of the yes vote.

A no vote basically says, here you go, do what you want.

Same as a yes vote but a least Scots can change the government if we don't like what they are doing, we can't do that in a general election.

Oh and I do vote, in the Scottish Parliament elections and local election but in the general election I choose to abstain for the reason given.

[Corranga]

But if everything is going to change whichever way we vote, why vote "yes" and guarantee all that expense? #devilsadvocate

I am more scared of what will happen after a no vote than I am of the yes vote.

A no vote basically says, here you go, do what you want.

Same as a yes vote but a least Scots can change the government if we don't like what they are doing

That's crazy, given that the Yes camp have no clue what will actually happen in the event of a successful Yes vote.

Sounds a bit like you are ignoring the No camps scaremongering, but taking on board the Yes camps 'less devolved/no more Scottish parliament' in the even of a No.

(edited to more debate stuff to the debate thread!)

[Mikie711]

Not at all, I don't really believe any of them and most of the no campaigns scare mongering is exactly that, scare tactics at there very best. My major concern is a re-write of the Barnett Formula forcing the then Scottish government to push up tax to cover the shortfall. Something that hasn't happened yet but would be considerably more likely post referendum. So in essence Westminster would take the same out but give less back leaving a financial shortfall that would lead to either cuts in spending or increases in taxation. All this done under the cloak of devolving more power north of the border but retaining control of the purse strings south of the border.

The biggest fear is the back lash, post referendum, from the English and Welsh MP's who have considerably more influence due to far greater numbers than us.

The genie is already out of the bottle and we can't put it back. All this talk tells me is that as a nation we have no belief or confidence in our ability to adapt and change with out someone there to catch us if we fall. We a refusing to take charge of our own country and make sh*t happen which quite frankly is I find really sad. As a small nation we have already given the world so much and have so much more to give but lack the investment, creative as well as technologically, to produce the goods. Even on here, this forum, there is clearly some brilliant people capable of incredible things and this is just a small part of the whole. Politicians be damned it's the people that make a Nation and I for one believe that we are capable of more given the right investment that isn't then taken away to fund something were there are more voters a couple of years later that results in the collapse of the industry/technology/science.

We are not voting for Salmond, SNP, Lib Dem, Labor or Tory we are being ask should Scotland be an independent Nation. I don't care what they call themselves so long as they have Scotland's interests at heart and write policy accordingly. No hidden agenda, just the countries best interests first. And I know there will still be a North South divide and rightly so, as the majority of the people stay in the central belt but at least it will still be in Scotland not the SE of England.

We are a proud nation capable of so much, we have so much more already than most small nations and refuse to see the potential.

But feel free to dissect, refute and ridicule the above because we have become very very good at that.

[C7Steve]

Well said Mike

Steve.

[smoo25]

Dom look what you have done man!