Tale of Woe...SLS

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robin
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by robin » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:16 am

rossybee wrote:Now, I totally see Jason's and Lewis' points, and I also understand the mods not wanting legal involvement, but...
X7LDA wrote:Oh and just be careful as last time I voiced my 100% factual opinion on a certain bodyshop I was threatened with legal action and mods removed my post.. :?
robin wrote:All that is asked is that people stick to the facts when posting about their experiences in such cases.
:?:
Did you not read the next line of the post you quoted above?
Note that we cannot be arsed getting involved with legals, so if we start getting flak from lawyers about stuff we might decide to remove it, as Lewis pointed out above.
:?: :?:
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Corranga
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by Corranga » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:03 am

I used Ali once, personally, I had no issues with his work, he just took way longer than I'd have liked.. I know there was some improvement with his pace at things / taking on too much work, and wonder if this is something as innocent as he hasn't got around to it (though this maybe does hint more towards financial concerns..).

I think it would be great if we could have some sort of overall solution for this kind of thing, I don't know, or at least can't remember the facts behind Lewis' body shop issues (nor am I asking!) but could we have some sort of "pm me of advice on company x, y and z" type thread, with no threats or accusations being posted in the public eye, just a single line post identifying that the poster is willing to be contacted regarding an experience with whatever company, which of course would come up in a forum search.
The first post in the thread could maybe be a disclaimer that thoughts and opinions of users and not SE, that the poster is happy to receive private messages regarding the subject, and instructional possibly even down to the format of the post..

The key priorities being to keep the mods free from legal action, whilst at the same time hopefully preventing another forum member going through the same problem, wasting time, money and car issues.

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Shug
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by Shug » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:09 am

Not a bad idea at first glance, but you then have the issue that if someone has a particular personal problem with a company that's an isolated case, then their lone opinion is allowed to affect that company perhaps more than it would otherwise do. And a forum member loses faith in a company that could do their work well and to the budget they are after. Sad fact is that sometimes personality clashes happen even in business and people just get rubbed up the wrong way on both sides. That's not a fair appraisal of the business.

Sadly, there are bad customers, just like there are bad businesses.

(NB - this is categorically not commenting on anything already said on this post, just a general observation on public facing businesses)
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by Jeremy » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:48 am

Shug wrote:Not a bad idea at first glance, but you then have the issue that if someone has a particular personal problem with a company that's an isolated case, then their lone opinion is allowed to affect that company perhaps more than it would otherwise do. And a forum member loses faith in a company that could do their work well and to the budget they are after. Sad fact is that sometimes personality clashes happen even in business and people just get rubbed up the wrong way on both sides. That's not a fair appraisal of the business.

Sadly, there are bad customers, just like there are bad businesses.

(NB - this is categorically not commenting on anything already said on this post, just a general observation on public facing businesses)
I too think think this is a great idea. Why not make the thread under a 'Heroes and Villains' sub heading. The 'Heroes' stuff can be openly posted, the 'Villains' stuff you contact the poster by PM.

You then have a balanced view, you weigh up the good and the bad and draw your own conclusions. Not difficult.

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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by campbell » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:51 am

A VW camper forum has extremely strict moderation rules relating to defamation, and naming of companies is actually forbidden. The mods edit out all refs. It's a much bigger and more established forum, which also charges for membership above a basic level of access. I think there is some kind of PM-based etiquette there, actually, as per Chris' point above.

But it all needs managing and like I said above, we are not geared up to that level.

I think we just ask people to think twice really.
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B12ANR
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by B12ANR » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:52 am

Cheers for the heads up Ian :thumbsup

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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by Titanium S1 111S (gla) » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:09 am

As Robert Shaw says in Jaws “you all know what I do for a living”.

Out of respect for the moderators and to avoid trouble generally I would suggest that we all limit comment on what we think about people and businesses. I’m not suggesting that facts shouldn’t be posted, SE exists to share information, but opinion should be kept to an absolute minimum. If anyone wants to know more then they can always e-mail or PM.

2p
Last edited by Titanium S1 111S (gla) on Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rossybee
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by rossybee » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:02 am

Robin, I have given no views or stirred anything up regarding this matter, I was only querying a style of moderation, and quite clearly was happy with the response, thanks all the same :roll:
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by ryallm » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:32 am

Well, here is an opinion, not fact :) I reckon all the bad reports on here about the Murray's service department of old played no small part in them eventually getting their act together and turning the service department around to the benefit of everyone. Forums are all about opinion and sharing experiences and it would be sad if no one can post views of garages, good and bad, for fear of litigation.

Curious to know if in law it is the people who moderate a web page who are responsible, or those who post??? The police arrested some guy this week for tweeting nasty things about diver Tom Daley - they didn't arrest anyone from Twitter.

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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by StiflerMR2 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:54 am

ryallm wrote:
Curious to know if in law it is the people who moderate a web page who are responsible, or those who post??? The police arrested some guy this week for tweeting nasty things about diver Tom Daley - they didn't arrest anyone from Twitter.
Sorry for the drift, but WTF, he said to Tom "you let the country and your dead dad down" - that warrants an arrest. Chav scum in Aberdeen steal cars and post about it on FB warrants nothing (as of yet). Strange times we live in.

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Shug
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by Shug » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:04 pm

ryallm wrote:Well, here is an opinion, not fact :) I reckon all the bad reports on here about the Murray's service department of old played no small part in them eventually getting their act together and turning the service department around to the benefit of everyone. Forums are all about opinion and sharing experiences and it would be sad if no one can post views of garages, good and bad, for fear of litigation.

Curious to know if in law it is the people who moderate a web page who are responsible, or those who post??? The police arrested some guy this week for tweeting nasty things about diver Tom Daley - they didn't arrest anyone from Twitter.

Mark
Mark, it's not about liability, it's about time. The police would ask us to provide all the appropriate data, which isn't a massive issue on the face of it. But it's an interaction and time to collate that we don't want to get involved in, given this is all done in spare time. Also, the server is physically owned by a member, who is liable for the content on that server.

To be categorically clear, we have never and will never dissuade people from posting factual information about bad service.

We have indicated in some instances that there is a right to reply of the trader in question and it's a bit one-sided if they are not a member (and we can't expect full-time businesses to sit trawling internet forums to answer issues) Threads that start off with one factual bad instance, then go on to three pages of people saying "poor show" with the odd piece of third hand info are not fair. That said, we've never locked or edited anything that we've not absolutely had to on threat of action from aggrieved parties.

In the past, with Ali (SLS), there was a general feeling amongst most mods that we have to try and support a local independent who could benefit the membership, while he undergoes teething pains. Especially as he set himself up almost exclusively to deal with SE members at first. That was all. Obviously he's now been in business for several years and should be well up to speed - any failure in terms of service or standard of work is clearly inexcusable at this stage.

I will reiterate though, and it's the only point to keep in mind, if you have something to post, please be able to back it up with facts if we get to a stage where lawyers become involved. We do not have time or inclination to get involved in legal matters between members and businesses, so if we do get a legal request to pull something, we will - no hesitation.
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by scott_e » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:08 pm

Puzzled by this thread too. Text posted here does not offer any confidence regarding future servicing without an explanation of the problems/resolution. Hope everything get sorted out lads, completely understand the lack of detail if its legal though.

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Shug
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by Shug » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:12 pm

scott_e wrote:Puzzled by this thread too. Text posted here does not offer any confidence regarding future servicing without an explanation of the problems/resolution. Hope everything get sorted out lads, completely understand the lack of detail if its legal though.
The OP has clearly stated he's taking legal advice and won't be posting further pending that advice. I'd sincerely like to hear the resolution myself and would ask Ian to post up when it's resolved, if he can.
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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by woody » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:20 pm

StiflerMR2 wrote:
ryallm wrote:
Curious to know if in law it is the people who moderate a web page who are responsible, or those who post??? The police arrested some guy this week for tweeting nasty things about diver Tom Daley - they didn't arrest anyone from Twitter.
Sorry for the drift, but WTF, he said to Tom "you let the country and your dead dad down" - that warrants an arrest. Chav scum in Aberdeen steal cars and post about it on FB warrants nothing (as of yet). Strange times we live in.

It was the other things he tweeted, not the Tom daley one that he was arrested for apparently. It's just that's the one that made people notice.

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Re: Tale of Woe...SLS

Post by StiflerMR2 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:23 pm

woody wrote:
StiflerMR2 wrote:
ryallm wrote:
Curious to know if in law it is the people who moderate a web page who are responsible, or those who post??? The police arrested some guy this week for tweeting nasty things about diver Tom Daley - they didn't arrest anyone from Twitter.
Sorry for the drift, but WTF, he said to Tom "you let the country and your dead dad down" - that warrants an arrest. Chav scum in Aberdeen steal cars and post about it on FB warrants nothing (as of yet). Strange times we live in.

It was the other things he tweeted, not the Tom daley one that he was arrested for apparently. It's just that's the one that made people notice.
Ah, I see. That'll teach me to dig a little deeper next time! :cheers

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