Pagid 42's not impressed

Victor Meldrew · Post by **Victor Meldrew** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:24 am

On the way down to Donny the brakes started to make a bit of a noise. At first I put it down to the usual rust on the disks as it had been sitting idle for a while. The noise starts to get worse and it starts to bite under braking.
We limp the car to Locherbie and find a garage, borrow a jack and whip the wheels off for a look.

The pads have about 5-6mm still left on them. When we take them out we find that its down to the metal rivets and that's what was grinding. Now I wouuldnt have minded if they were brass rivits like you normally get, but these look like steel rivits. So I now have a groove on the inside of the disk.

We fitted a set of green stuff pads to get me going again.

I think all in it will be a blessing. The green stuff don't have the same initial bite that the 42's had so for Donny in the wet the brakes will be that little bit less prone to snatching.

So. If your on Blue 42's change them early or risk your disks.

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:22 am

The RS-14's do it as well... Eliseparts rotors before and after the rs14 / steve_weegie treatment

Victor Meldrew · Post by **Victor Meldrew** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:40 am

Think I just caught it in time. Dan has brought down a set of yellowstuff pads so I might get them off him to put on if the greens start to fade.

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:45 am

If you put the yellowstuff on, let me know how you get on with them. I've given up on pagid for what I use the car for - gone for SBS endurance compound this time, but am still bedding the brakes in. Not quite got the bite of the rs14 but hopefully they will be a bit kinder on the discs....

mac · Post by **mac** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:29 am

Tut had this problem yonks ago - I thought they had moved on to bonding the pads to the backer - certainly had on the pair I've just removed from our elise which had "ecconomic" use

Mac

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:07 am

My fronts were definatly stud mounted to the backing plate - 6 studs in total. Would have bought the pads about 6 months ago - might have got old stock?

r055 · Post by **r055** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:23 am

steve_weegie wrote:My fronts were definatly stud mounted to the backing plate - 6 studs in total. Would have bought the pads about 6 months ago - might have got old stock?

how did a spider get there?

mac · Post by **mac** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:03 am

Can't speak for the black pagids - only the blue ones

Mac

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:06 pm

yeah i was under the impression they were bonded too..... i didn't think people rivetted (sp?) any more as bonding is much stronger and more reliable...

mac · Post by **mac** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:28 pm

Tom wrote:yeah i was under the impression they were bonded too..... i didn't think people rivetted (sp?) any more as bonding is much stronger and more reliable...

Problem with bonding a "race" pad is that the heat created under braking can be enough to unstick the sticky stuff. If you rivet the material on you can use differential expansion to ensure that the hotter the pad the greater the adhesion of pad to backing plate.

Mac

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:39 am

fark.... so how big are the rivets? ie, generally how far into the pad material do the rivets extend?

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:20 am

never had this issue, and I've been using Pagids (14&42) for the last 3 years now

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:33 am

Thanks for the "Heads Up".

What mileage did you have on the Pagids when this occurred and how many of those miles were track?

I have noticed that they seem to be wearing quicker than the standard pads, but they also give much better feel and power in all driving conditions IMHO.

Take care,

Frank

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:36 am

I recon i've had about 10000 miles out my last set of fronts, with a few track days, a couple of road rallies and a sprint to complement the standard mileage. Once the rs14's are about 2/3rds worn, I'd perhaps pop them off and check the stud clearance (tiny dremmel bit at the stud points shown in my pic??). You should be able to hear when you've got stud to disc contact as you'll get a loud scuffing sound too.

I know the pagid pads (esp. rs14) rely heavily on adherent friction between the pad and disc to work correctly and as this only starts to work at high temperature, this is why they wear a bit quicker than normal when cold I believe... When they're hot, i dont think they wear as much as they are not using abrasive friction to convert the braking energy to heat.

Cheers,

Steve

tut · Post by **tut** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:00 pm

I was just going to mention that incident Mac. I had 15's on, think I was the first to try them, and when I got to KH it sounded like metal on metal at the front.

I think that it was yourself and Robin that changed them to EBC's for me, but they were less than half worn, with large brass rivets showing. Theory was that it was soft brass and would not be heard, but in practice the screeching made them undriveable. I still have them, but never tried them again.

I have since used 14's and had no problem, but John's 4-2's had small brass rivets showing, along with two that appeared to be white steel, so no idea what is happening. I used standard Lotus pads of some type on the front this weekend, as they came with the new calipers that I bought on eBay, along with MMC's on the rear.

Will probably move over to SBS now for the front when I fit the new EBC Ultramax discs.

tut

Scottish Elises

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