Brake fluid and oil change - how easy?

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dezzy
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Brake fluid and oil change - how easy?

Post by dezzy » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:41 pm

Having done a couple of trackdays and a few road runs since my oil was last changed, I think it could do with a change. It's looking a bit thicker/darker than before.

Also, when I put the Pagids on before Tut Towers, my brake fluid looked okay, but it's definitely looking pretty dark now, so I guess needs changed.

So, how easy is it to do these two things? I think the brake fluid is probably the most urgent. I've got the Kippford campaganza this coming weekend, then SIDC trackday and Ayrshire run the following weekend. Was thinking of seeing it through them with the current fluids then changing afterwards, in advance of next trackday at end of August.

Should I really change before the SIDC day on 28th? If so, anyone fancy lending a hand or do you think it's something I could do pretty easily myself (the brake fluid, that is). Is it worth attempting the oil change myself (never done one in my life) or should I wait til next service, which is due in about 3k miles?

Finally, what oil / brake fluid should I use?

Thanks for all the help!
D
:D
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Victor Meldrew
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Post by Victor Meldrew » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:06 pm

I have a cracking bit of kit that sucks the oil out of the dip stick hose... fine for doing an interim oil change... dont know if you need to do the filter as well before the scheduled service but freshening up the oil wont do any harm.

So for that all you need is the oil..

I have an easy bleed kit as well so brake fluid change is pretty easy..

You could pop over to mine before KH and do the lot it in the morning, all you would need to bring would be the fluids..
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robin
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Post by robin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:22 pm

I still think the best way to bleed brakes is the old way, but you can do it with an easibleed by yourself. If you have a willing volunteer then you can pump most of the fluid out of the front caliper first, then bleed out each corner in turn. There is no right/wrong order to do it in.

Simply put, you top off the reservoir with clean fluid.

Loosen the bleed nipple (11mm spanner or six sided socket to loosen it), then slip a rubber pipe over the nipple - should be a tight fit - clear pipe is best. Other end of pipe in either a milk bottle or some other container. Open the bleed nipple about 1/4 of a turn. Shout "down". Your volunteer should now depress brake pedal to the floor. If you have a servo, you might want the engine ticking over as it makes it easier to move the pedal. Ideally to start with they respond "down" to let you know they've done it. You will see a squirt of fluid coming through the pipe. To start with it will be murky, but when the clear fluid comes through it will be clean. Now you tighten the bleed nipple (only needs to turn until it stops - you don't need it tight) and shout "up". They release pedal and hopefully reply "up".

Repeat that until all the fluid coming out of the first corner is clear. Every 10-20 pumps top off the reservoir with clean fluid. When you're done with the first corner, tighten the bleed nipple with a 11mm spanner or a small 1/4" ratchet - do not go overboard. Wipe clean and before you stick the dust cover back on the nipple get the volunteer to press the pedal hard - look for weeping around the nipple - if there is any, you need to tighten a bit more.

Now repeat that at each corner, never forgetting to keep topping off the reservoir before it get's half full.

You can do the fronts through the spokes of the wheels, but the backs need the wheels off on a K-series variant anyway, and I would guess likewise for 111R. TBH it's as easy to remove wheels front and back, so jack and bleed one side, then the other.

With an easibleed, the process is different. Deflate a tyre to about 15psi then hook up the remote reservoir (dry to start with) to the fluid reservoir. Then attach the airline to the tyre. Make sure it's all airtight and no air is escaping anywhere. Assuming all is OK, remove the airline, open the remote reservoir, fill with clean fluid, reattach to the tyre.

Now you do much the same at each wheel as before, except (a) you need to make sure the remote reservoir doesn't drain, (b) make sure the tyre pressure stays reasonable, so maybe pump up with a foot pump now and then and (c) you don't need to operate the pedal - open the bleed nipple and the fluid should gush out.

For brake fluid I recommend any of the super DOT 4 or the DOT 5.1. DO NOT USE DOT 5 - it's different, won't work and eats small mammals.

For oil, what does it say in the book - I imagine the Toyota is sensitive to oil viscosity so I would use a full synthetic with viscosity as specified in the book - Mobil 1 is a safe bet I think, provided it comes in the right viscosity.

To change the oil, get the engine warm (not hot), put up on wheel ramps or axle stands, remove undertray, locate the sump drain plug, undo it (prepare for oil to run down your arm - hence make sure that you can hold your hand on the sump comfortably - if the sump is too hot to touch, then the oil will burn you). Note there is a probably a washer on the oil plug, so don't lose it. Also the oil will flow better if you remove the oil filler cap. I suggest removing the keys from the ignition to make sure there is no danger of engine being cranked while there is no oil in it.

I assume you don't want to change filter (no point changing sooner than service interval IMHO - the oil is burnt, the filter is fine).

Refit sump plug, make it reasonably tight - should probably do up with a good long spanner or a 1/2" ratchet. Now I would refill with about 3/4 of the oil volume it says in the manual it will take (most oil containers are graduated along one side). Refit filler cap. Make sure there is at least an oil level visible on the dip stick, but it doesn't need to be full.

Run up the engine (don't rev, just tick over) and make sure no oil is escaping from the sump plug.

Switch off engine. Refit undertray. Drive off ramps. Now measure oil level with dip stick again. Fill up with oil to right level.

Job done.

Cheers,
Robin
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robin
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Post by robin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:23 pm

Use John's vacuum sucker for the oil - way easier than draining it the old fashioned way :-)

Cheers,
Robin
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Post by Victor Meldrew » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:38 pm

robin wrote:Use John's vacuum sucker for the oil - way easier than draining it the old fashioned way :-)

Cheers,
Robin
Its great mate....

I also use it to suck out the brake fluid reserviour of the old fluid first before filling it with new stuff. You need to be careful not to touch any pedals at this point or you pull air into the master cylinder.

If all you do is top up the reserviour with new stuff, your just diluting the old stuff, not changing out the lot. Works fine for me... must do it again this year. Think it was October last year I did it.
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dezzy
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Post by dezzy » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:42 pm

Thanks for the very detailed explanation Robin! I think you're right - it sounds far easier to do the oil with John's sucker thing.

John, thanks very much for the pre-KH offer, but it sounds like that'll involve a *very* early rise for me to get up to yours in time to do that before KH, so will maybe give it a try myself. Will probably be very educational for me! :D

Where did you get the sucker thing for the oil?

I know it's hard to tell without seeing the fluids yourselves, but do you think I should do this in advance of KH so that it's all fresh for the trackday or would it be better to give it a final thrashing before changing it all over for nice fresh stuff afterwards?

Thanks again guys.
D
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Post by Victor Meldrew » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:45 pm

Best do it before Kh.. it might be dry :ROFL
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robin
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Post by robin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:57 pm

Yes, with the 111R I really really wouldn't want to be caning it on dodgy oil. I would think one oil change every 8-12 track hours, depending on how hard you rev the engine. TBH, the only way to drive the 111R is to within an inch of it's life every gear change, so am guessing the oil will be black, unless you have an oil cooler ;-)

What colour is current oil? Does it smell a bit burnt?

Cheers,
Robin
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Post by Victor Meldrew » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:59 pm

dezzy wrote:
John, thanks very much for the pre-KH offer, but it sounds like that'll involve a *very* early rise for me to get up to yours in time to do that before KH, so will maybe give it a try myself. Will probably be very educational for me! :D?

Thanks again guys.
D
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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:07 pm

Why do you need the rear wheels off? Is it that different to the S1?

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dezzy
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Post by dezzy » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:11 pm

robin wrote: What colour is current oil? Does it smell a bit burnt?
It's not quite pitch black, but pretty dark. Not sure about the smell . . . I guess it smells a wee bit burnt, but just smells like oil! :roll: Also just noticed that the level is getting near the lower marker, but that was with a cold engine (not used car at all today).

I take it one of these will do for extracting: Screwfix Fluid Extractor. Do you leave oil cap on when using this or best with it off?

So, should I go for the brake fluid change in advance of KH too?

Think I'll persevere for the campaganza this weekend then try to change both oil and brake fluid next week.

Thanks for the help gentlemen. :thumbsup :D

D
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Post by robin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:25 pm

RICHARDHUMBLE wrote:Why do you need the rear wheels off? Is it that different to the S1?

Rich
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With the 5 spokes you might be able to get enough access with the wheels on - pretty sure you need to remove the wheels for 6 spokes and S2 wheels - might be wrong though - nothing to stop people trying it and finding out I guess!

Cheers,
Robin
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Post by robin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:34 pm

dezzy wrote: Thanks for the help gentlemeN.
Oil should be at full level when warm I think - check your owner's guide. These high revving engines with variable cam timing are a lot more sensitive to low oil levels than the more agricultural K-series ;-)

Cheers,
Robin
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Post by Victor Meldrew » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:15 pm

dezzy wrote:
robin wrote: What colour is current oil? Does it smell a bit burnt?
It's not quite pitch black, but pretty dark. Not sure about the smell . . . I guess it smells a wee bit burnt, but just smells like oil! :roll: Also just noticed that the level is getting near the lower marker, but that was with a cold engine (not used car at all today).

I take it one of these will do for extracting: Screwfix Fluid Extractor. Do you leave oil cap on when using this or best with it off?

So, should I go for the brake fluid change in advance of KH too?

Think I'll persevere for the campaganza this weekend then try to change both oil and brake fluid next week.

Thanks for the help gentlemen. :thumbsup :D

D
Might consider poping over to give you a hand one night. Could do with an excuse to get out the house for a bit with all the sh*t thats been going on this last few weeks. And yes, thats the little alien looking like thing :lol:
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Post by campbell » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:34 pm

I was about to post that an oil change is within the wit of almost anyone now that I've done one myself (albeit with bits borrowed from Jedi Master Iddon!).

However the Jedi Master himself beat me to it.

Haven't done a solo brake bleed and TBH would only really attempt with someone that knows what they are doing, such is the safety aspect and also my anal attachment to a really HARD pedal ;-)

Don't worry about either of these before the Campaganza, the pace will not be earth-shattering and pressure on the car will therefore be suitably restrained. My dampers are FUBAR'd in any case so I can't go round corners very well at present!

Oil and fluid updates before your trackday make a lot of sense though.

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