Lotus Evora crossover, roadster to spearhead expanded Evora

[campbell]

If the crossover is styled well, not silly money and has a decent boot, I'll have a close look...

[SAJ]

I don't think advertising or marketing is the key - no amount of advertising or marketing blurb is going to help if you don't have the right product at the right price. Press and Internet coverage these days ensures good cars are effectively self advertising. Don't recall ever seeing an advert for a 911 GT3 but they seem to sell ok. I think the reason the Evora hasn't sold well is that it lists somewhere between a Cayman and a 911 which makes it look overpriced to many people, especially when the quality was a bit suspect on the early cars (the first demo I drove at MMC had bits of interior trim coming loose and it was only just run in). It also suffered by being unfairly ignored by the Bahar era loony management team and for several years it never got the continued development it deserved. Think just how good it could have become if it had a fraction of the honing and fettling that Porsche applies to each 911 iteration.

I wasn't talking about marketing as the only issue, it is just one of them and for me a big one. I said in an earlier post "So long as it looks good and the quality of finish matches the price point it goes out at it will probably sell quite well."

I would say the 911 GT3 is a poor example given it is aimed directly at the driving enthusiast and is deliberately made in small numbers. Petrolheads have to realise the rest of the world doesn't have the same knowledge and understanding about cars and thus Lotus is going to have to show them what their products are all about.

[graeme]

One reasonably big problem I see is a real disconnect between Lotus racing and Lotus showrooms.

Old people will remember the Lotus F1 glory days, but what do we get these days? What can we tell our grand-sprogs we saw Lotus do that actually matters?

It must cost a fortune to put the Lotus name on an F1 car, and for what? How much air time and fans do they win by plodding around in the lower mid-field with drivers nobody cares about who crash a lot? Venezuela's a big market for the Exige, is it? OK, it's not *really* Lotus cars, it's just a brand name, and doesn't have much to do with Lotus as we know it, but that's kinda the point...

Again, the Lotus name appears on the LMP1 results table, in last place. Brilliant. F1 and LMP1. A huge corporate branding exercise in the only two race series on the planet guaranteed to create absolutely zero road-car recognition from fans. Any technology trickle-down like Ferrari have? Nope. Any benefits at all for the showroom guys? Hmmm... a bit of Paddock Club hospitality, and the occasional corporate-special in road car in a 70s-fag-packet colour scheme. Nice.

F1 cars just don't fit the Lotus ethos any more. F1 cars are no longer just light, powerful, well set-up single seaters built in sheds by engineers out of steel tube, digestive biscuits and bits of knuckle. F1 cars are flying computers, and Lotus doesn't build flying computers, McLaren does. Lotus still builds simple, engaging driver's cars for discerning gentlemen who know what rack-and-pinion steering is. So, I personally think that means Lotus needs to go race elsewhere to be relevant today and in the future.

Despite all the Evora GTx development, Lotus don't have a single entry in LMGTE Pro or AM, either works or private teams, or anything else relevant to the gentleman racer. A few Evoras have popped up in private hands at Spa and Le Mans a while back, and Blancpain GTs a few years ago IIRC, but that all seems to have fizzled and died.

Where are the credible works teams? And I mean proper actual works teams which tie right back to the factory and showrooms and fans and customers, not simply sharing board members and paint codes. Hell, where are the attractive privateer packages with factory support?

I know for a fact that, given a lottery win, I could phone Stuttgart and order a 991 RSR for delivery last week, plonk Welsh Stig in the hot seat, and be somewhere near the front of the pack in any race I cared to enter my team at, up to and including the Le Mans 24hr. I know this because Porsches with huge aero kits win on TV every weekend. Hunners of them. Like a plague or something... They all win. Joint first, the lot of them!

It logically follows that a 991 C2 is the fastest thing one can arrive at the bowling green in. We all know this to be true, because we watch something roughly the same shape winning race after race. It makes perfect sense. It's essentially the same car underneath. Must be.

Now, I'm sure, if you can get the switchboard at Hethel reception to put you through to the correct Portacabin, you *can* buy a race-ready Evora GT if you ask nicely in a Norfolk accent, and wait a year or two, but I never, ever see one on MotorsTV, let alone actual TV. I never see anything with a Lotus badge on it, unless it's the highlights of a Lotus RDC race from 3 weeks ago.

Which channel do I need to watch to see a Lotus soundly thrashing the competition every weekend, or even taking the fight to them? The brand is worth nothing, because it does nothing. I'm amazed Lotus can even win the Elise Trophy.

If I were Lotus, I'd go out and win every GT series on the planet, in an Evora plastered with the logo of a very wealthy energy drink company, until one day I knew how to do the same thing as a works team, and trickle all that knowledge and development and exposure down to the factory and all the glory down to the sales floor. Far better than pissing all your money away to put your name in foot-high gold letters on somebody else's irrelevant car, only to watch it crumple and shard its way into the armco every week.

Win races, you'll sell more road cars. Or fade into irrelevance after a generation or two of petrolheads can't remember why you're a famous sports car maker any more.

[j2 lot]

What we need is Jim Bond Back in a Lotus, it's what got most of my generation wanting an Esprit.

[Jeremy]

I don't have anything against predominantly sports car manufacturers bringing out SUV's or crossovers. It seems to irk Evo subscribers but these companies exist to generate profit, and if this is the best way to do it in today or tomorrow's world, then so be it.

However, I'd run a mile from a Lotus built version. As much as we love our Elise/exige/Evora/211 or whatever we drive, they are not without their faults or idiosyncrasies or let's say 'quality control' issues. Part of the character of our cars and we accept/put up with this.

But for a car I drive day in, day out, I just want it to work. I don't want to put up with squeaks or rattles or bits falling off or things annoying me because they haven't been properly developed or tested.

So whilst I'd happily take an Evora over a 911, would I take a Lotus SUV over a Cayenne? Never in a million years.

Regards,

Jeremy

[Stu160]

Bloody hell Big G, dont hold back. Very true though, I have to agree.

Stu

[Mikie711]

Bloody hell Big G, dont hold back. Very true though, I have to agree.

Stu

Really, how many Merc customers are there because they won in F1. How many 1.6l turbo merc's are there in their line up. How relevant is F1 to modern day road cars, who knows. Does F1 drive road car tech or is it the other way round. Everybody ordered GT3's long before they won a single damned thing, how does that fit with the above?

Really, if you are about to spend the second largest junk of your hard earned do you really think to yourself I better buy a merc because they won F1 or an Audi coz they won le mans. The only manufacturer that I can think of that had any tangible bennifit from racing was Subaru and that nearly bankrupted them.

Back to the topic, a cross over Lotus FFS, am I the only one that thinks a cross over Evora has got to be some sort of joke. Thinking Audi all road here not RRS/Q7/X5,6 etc. It would look ridiculous and without a 4 wheel drive system a bit bloody pointless.

Hopefully it is some sort of restyled Proton or the like and not an Evora with chunky bumpers and huge ground clearance. But if it shifts cars, makes money and allows for re-investment then knock yourself out.

[Stu160]

[vet111s]

Worth noting that even land rover has been building a 2wd freelander for the last few years to appease the tree huggers and has sold pretty well so there is a potential market for non-4wd 4wd-looking cars

[Al.]

And a 2 WD Range Rover Evoque which is the cheapest in the range so thus attractive to those who are only about looks, and nothing gives it away on the outside until the first snowy hill is encountered. A 2WD RR? I bet few knew that and not heavily advertised.

[Mikie711]

You are both talking about entry level cars to an established range of distinctly off road cars. That and they don't make a 2wd Freelander any more. You can buy an Evoque 2wd if you don't need/want or afford 4wd but want the look but comparing an Evora to a Evoque is a bit ridiculous do you not think.
Lets wait and see if it is in fact true first and then we can have a look at what they came up with. I am just a bit astonished that they would choose a cross over vehicle rather than taking the Evora to the next level and producing a true competitor to the 911. A market where there is much bigger returns if you get it right.

[Lazydonkey]

Surely the pseudo 4x4 market is bigger than the 911 one?

[campbell]

I would also guess the soft roader market to be bigger and with more resilience.

[Mikie711]

But the profitability of the 911 is far greater than the cross over market. They aren't building a 4x4, different market segment.
The 911 is one of the most profitable cars out there (rumored to be $23000 per car), makes more per unit than just about everything else. And remember, Lotus cannot compete in a volume sales market, they don't have the facilities to build thousands of units.
Campbell, it isn't a soft roader it's a crossover. Softroaders are CRV's, Rav 4, Xtrails etc. If it's Evora based then it is more like a .................. I actually have know idea what it'll be like as I don't think there is anything to compare a xover sports car too. Perhaps a new market segment

[Al.]

My comment wasn't meant as anything other than a response to the fact that 2WD soft roaders/crossovers/ call them what you want do sell despite it being almost an oxymoron. There are some out there that the motoring masses don't even know about. We have an Evoque for the wife/us and granted it is the most powerful petrol turbo one with 265Hp or something all singing, all dancing but it was bought largely for style (as she liked it and set her heart on one) and only for very occasional use for towing by me and being able to keep moving in winter.

On that basis look how many Porker households have a Macan/Cayenne for SWMBO/School run and a Boxster/911 for him/weekends. It is brand loyalty. More common than some may believe. Hell we are thinking the next one may be a Macan but if Lotus had a useful vehicle in that segment I'd look at it.

Also remember if it weren't for the Cayenne the 911 wouldn't exist as it does today. There are a lot of vey good points being made over on TLF on a similar thread for those who haunt both. This may be a necessary evil (in some eyes) to keep the company afloat and they are not new to it as they have engineered aspects and in one case a full car for others in Lotus Engineering.