Marussia F1 crash

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Shug
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by Shug » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:57 pm

dirkpitt wrote:This is heart breaking!!news that she has lost her eye :cry:

Just the other day i was talking to a friend, about Massa's incident; then wondering about helmet visor design to help stop this.

As i understand canopy technology for F1 has been looked at ........and I’m thinking, its looking more likely now, after this incident. Im all for this if it is a practical way to help prevent such head injuries

im quite keen on a front half conopy idea and the driver also having a more advanced front visor technology to suit ballistic impact etc..
They already have 3mm (IIRC) lexan which is pretty bloody tough. Think riot shield. Nothing suitably transparent is going to stop something with the energy of a spring at 150mph, or the loading shelf of a truck. Well, you could, but it'd just tear the driver's head off instead...

I'm a little in two minds about canopies... Would they create another risk in terms of driver extraction for the minimal additional safety a transparent screen can provide? Have also seen some tests of tubular structures which would create more incidents than they'd protect from - given the field of view issues.

This was a very freak incident - much like Massa's. Can we really fundamentally change the cars every time there's a freak occurrence, to mitigate against the tiny chance it could happen again?

What I think is important, however, is to establish why the car supposedly accelerated into the loading ramp when the driver should have been coming to a stop. A modern F1 two pedal cockpit should not allow hitting the wrong pedal, so was it a software issue with the ECU? This is my basic concern with DBW throttles.
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by jason » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:07 pm

Awful news :(

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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by dirkpitt » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:45 am

Shug wrote:
dirkpitt wrote:This is heart breaking!!news that she has lost her eye :cry:

Just the other day i was talking to a friend, about Massa's incident; then wondering about helmet visor design to help stop this.

As i understand canopy technology for F1 has been looked at ........and I’m thinking, its looking more likely now, after this incident. Im all for this if it is a practical way to help prevent such head injuries

im quite keen on a front half conopy idea and the driver also having a more advanced front visor technology to suit ballistic impact etc..
They already have 3mm (IIRC) lexan which is pretty bloody tough. Think riot shield. Nothing suitably transparent is going to stop something with the energy of a spring at 150mph, or the loading shelf of a truck. Well, you could, but it'd just tear the driver's head off instead...

I'm a little in two minds about canopies... Would they create another risk in terms of driver extraction for the minimal additional safety a transparent screen can provide? Have also seen some tests of tubular structures which would create more incidents than they'd protect from - given the field of view issues.

This was a very freak incident - much like Massa's. Can we really fundamentally change the cars every time there's a freak occurrence, to mitigate against the tiny chance it could happen again?

What I think is important, however, is to establish why the car supposedly accelerated into the loading ramp when the driver should have been coming to a stop. A modern F1 two pedal cockpit should not allow hitting the wrong pedal, so was it a software issue with the ECU? This is my basic concern with DBW throttles.
Yeah it’s a tricky one I admit, but I do feel that advances should be looked at to help increase safety from injury, in the future.

It is frustrating when nothing gets addressed until someone gets seriously hurt or killed………always, after the fact.

When you say it’s a freak accident, isn’t that what you could say about senna’s crash??? I know that is different, but you get my meaning……..

It’s a dangerous outlook IMHO when we start saying that it’s a freak accident so doesn’t mitigate any serious action on developing technology to overcome and prevent…. Not saying that’s what you were driving at (pun not intended) :) ……. but, it does sound like its heading in that direction (second pun intended). :D

on what caused it ...im hearing it was something to do with the clutch realise mech....which, just decided to engage and drive the car forward...........does anyone have any more info on this?
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by j2 lot » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:59 am

I think this is a difficult issue to address - given that it is a sport involving massive speeds and pushing boundaries of technology ( allegedly) it is remarkable that the last death in F1 was Senna in 1994. A commendable safety record in the face of huge risks.

This accident and the injury to Massa could have happened in any open cockpit formula and they were not really caused/linked to the technology or design of the cars and are unfortunate incidents arising from a set of actions /events rather than safety flaws .
A risk assessment looks at the likelihood of an accident versus the consequences and I suspect that if there were enclosed cckpits introduced to mitigate against this kind of incident there are probably a whole new set of possibilities that arise that make the risk higher.
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by Dominic » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:01 am

The most I have read about the cause is that there would appear to be various speculative reasons, but no-one is commenting at the moment until the fact of the matter is established.

Given the nature of the crash, it's good to hear that Maria will recover, although, sadly without her right eye.
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by Dominic » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:31 am

The lastest; http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18854061

No fault with the car. So, there is no mention in the report, but one would therefore assume that the fault must have been with the driver.
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by jason » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:56 am

Marusiia's careful wording certainly implies that. There are some informed options, such as Gary Anderson's in Autosport, but they're just opinions without data.

There should be the obvious questions asked about the merit of leaving a loading platform where, and how, it was parked. But there should also be HSE questions on why the configuration of an F1 car's controls are such that operator error (caused by whatever scenario) can lead to a vehicle driving forwards against the driver's wish (be it button configuration, brake pressure vs engine software, or whatever).

All hypothesising of course and none of it will help this poor lady.

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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by dirkpitt » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:36 am

So, it looks like she may have just made a mistake with the clutch realise system, to cause the car to drive off into the low lift? Her fingers slipped maybe?? Is that what they are suggesting?

What did Sherlock Holmes say if all the facts point to one conclusion….that has to be the solution, regardless of how improbable or unthinkable it seems.

From what I understand there is two clutch leavers under the gear paddles…one on each side. One is a pre load clutch realise and the other is a full release?

Not sure which system they have on the marussia car?
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by SAJ » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:55 am

Even if it did shoot off, why not stamp on the brake pedal?
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by j2 lot » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:02 am

Maria De Villota found dead in Spanish hotel room
:cry:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24487701

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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by ClarkyBoy » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:05 am

terrible shame, poor woman.
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by Cisco » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:12 am

RIP

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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by Shug » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:20 am

RIP

I'm hearing chat from a couple of angles she'd called paramedics complaining of head pain, so perhaps a legacy of the injuries. Whatever the cause, terrible news. :(
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Re: Marussia F1 crash

Post by AJT » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:35 am

Sad news :(
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