Help! Car won't start

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:24 pm

robin wrote:How do you know the ECU isn't powering up?

The green LED on the top of it isn't lighting up like it normally does.

There are some fuses on the ECU panel - you should check both of those.

Yup, done that

Put the key in the ignition and turn to the run position (that's not the crank position - it's the one the key jumps back to when you release it on cranking).

You should hear the fuel pump prime.

Turn the key to crank position. You should obviously hear the engine crank.

Release the key so it returns to the run position.

It was priming earlier but now isn't. But that was the same time the ECU stopped powering up.

Now have the volunteer turn the key back to the run position - you should hear a clunk as the master relay engages, the fuel pump should prime (almost immediately after the clunk), the IACV will whirr again as the ECU puts it to the correct position.

There now isn't any relays clicking, but I'll check again tomorrow to make sure my ears are working

If all this works and yet the engine won't start I suspect you have a failed cam or crank position sensor (or no fuel).

Thank you for all your help. When I put the relay back in tomorrow I check it all again.

I really hope its something electrical or a sensor and not the cambelt itself. It was changed 1000 miles ago

Cheers

Andy

tut · Post by **tut** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:24 pm

i have a good crimping tool.........

tut

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:27 pm

robin wrote:While the MFRU does fail sometimes, I would be surprised if yours had - it's easy to test if you have a multimeter and the patience to prod the terminals with some wires connected to the battery ... I'll write something up if you're willing to attempt it.

Cheers,
Robin

I'm reasonably competent with a multimeter, and if you don't mind that'd be fantastic

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:29 pm

mattg wrote:andy, is the engine getting compression ok when you try to start it?
if not, it could be a snapped cambelt.

I think so but you've got me worried now.

mac · Post by **mac** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:47 pm

robin wrote:Badly would be my guess - there is no good solution. The original S2 kit was good because it came with all the plugs to make everything work properly with the standard loom; the emerald solution is to hack off the standard loom plug and recrimp everything into the new MEMS-type plug - this is not impossible, but for a DIY install without a good crimping tool, you can make a total mess of it quite quickly.

Cheers,
Robin

But that said - PTP seem to have a supply of the correct EU3 plug types so I'm wondering if they did a similar "converter" that they supplied with the S1 kits to go from MEMS to EFI

Mac

robin · Post by **robin** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:26 am

Andy - I see that you are over in Dunfermline - I think the easiest solution will be for me to visit as I am only over in Edinburgh - is the car in a garage or exposed to the elements?

I can come over this afternoon, but if it's out doors I think our time working on it will be limited!!

Cheers,
Robin

P.S. You can give me a ring on 07973 391 393 ...

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:38 pm

Andy, assuming you're gsxr on seloc....

It's got to be power related if there's no light on the emerald. Can you put a multimeter betweem pins 11 and 29 and then 28 and 29 of the connector with the ignition on? You should see 12v. If not, there's a problem with either a fuse or a relay. If you've got 12v there, its a problem with the emerald (internal fuse??)

Cheers,

Steve

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:48 pm

Hi Steve, yes that's me

Is that on the connector that goes into the Emerald unit or the piggy back unit?

I'll try that tomorrow, cheers for the tip

thinfourth · Post by **thinfourth** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:52 pm

tut wrote:i have a good crimping tool.........

tut

At your age Tut being able to crimp well is something to be proud of

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:56 pm

Andy wrote:Hi Steve, yes that's me

Is that on the connector that goes into the Emerald unit or the piggy back unit?

I'll try that tomorrow, cheers for the tip

The one into the back of the emerald

As long as the emerald has got 12v to power it, you should be able to talk to it from the laptop.

Cheers,

Steve

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:38 pm

Couldn't wait until morning

There is 12v between pins 11 and 29 but there is no voltage between 28 and 29. So no power from the main relay

Next question, where's that? Is that the same as the multifunction relay?

I'll try the PC on it tomorrow

Cheers Steve

Andy

robin · Post by **robin** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:49 pm

Andy - sorry I didn't get back to you earlier - been working on when I can make it over to see you - was hoping to get over tomorrow night, but now looking a bit dicey.

But in the meanwhile with the 36-way connector removed from the bottom of the emerald you should first look at it from the back side - this is the side the wires emerge from.

With the release tab facing up you should treat the wire at the bottom left as pin 1.

Depending on how the injection has been set up, this may or may not be connected.

Then moving across from left to right you count up to pin 12.

Then moving up a row and staying on the right is pin 13.

Then moving back to the left you count up to pin 24.

Then moving up a row and staying on the left is pin 25.

Finally, moving back to the right you count up to pin 36.

This is ALL ON THE WIRE SIDE. You must then work out how to reverse this to look at the pin side (if you have problems visualising it, hold on to the wire in position 12, then rotate connector so you're looking at the terminal side, then see which terminal your wire is connected to, IYSWIM).

To finally be sure you've got the hang of the pin numbering there will definitely not be a wire in pins 13 & 14.

Note that on the non-wire side you can pop out the cream dust cover and get better view of the terminals - don't muller the terminals, or you'll get a poor fit later.

Now when you turn the ignition on you should see +12 or so measuring from pin 11 to pin 29.

With the ECU disconnected, you should not yet see +12 on pin 28 to pin 29. Sometimes they wire the emerald up wrong and short pins 11 and pin 28 together - in this case you will see +12 here - it's not the end of the wolrd.

Now take a short length of wire and connect from pin 29 to pin 4 (just touch it briefly first - watch for big sparks - these mean you've got the wrong pins ... !). You should hear the MFRU clunk.

If it clunks, leave the wire poked in those two terminals (i.e. leave the MFRU engaged).

Now measure the voltage from pin 28 to pin 29. You should now see +12 there if it wasn't there earlier.

You should also see something very close to the same voltage on pins 5, 23, 24 & 25.

If you do, then the next step is to run the fuel pump. Briefly connect a wire from pin 29 to pin 20. You should hear the fuel pump run - it will run for as long as you leave the wire connected. No point in letting it run for more than a few seconds.

At this point you've tested the important aspects of the MFRU and the wiring loom from a power distribution point of view.

Let us know what you find ...

Cheers,
Robin

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:04 pm

Cheers Robin, don't worry about earlier, I didn't expect you to down tools and run over

I didn't fancy taking the cover off earlier so taped some .5mm drill bits to my multimeter probes

Worked out the back to front bit pretty quick, after the first wire I looked for had no wire.

I shall go and do that and report back.

Thanks again

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:06 pm

Aah, i see... Voltage on pin 11 should turn on the pin 4main relay drive that in turn feeds pin 28 (the emeralds main current source)?

Wouldnt mind tagging along for a wee look at the PTP / emerald kit install at somepoint if thats alright too?

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:58 pm

Much to the bemusement of our neighbours, the two us have been out working on this at 10.30pm

Now when you turn the ignition on you should see +12 or so measuring from pin 11 to pin 29.

Yes, 12V

With the ECU disconnected, you should not yet see +12 on pin 28 to pin 29.

Correct, 0V

Now take a short length of wire and connect from pin 29 to pin 4 (just touch it briefly first - watch for big sparks - these mean you've got the wrong pins ... !). You should hear the MFRU clunk.

More of a clickety noise but something certainly happened.

If it clunks, leave the wire poked in those two terminals (i.e. leave the MFRU engaged).

I did that

Now measure the voltage from pin 28 to pin 29. You should now see +12 there if it wasn't there earlier.

Yes, 12V

You should also see something very close to the same voltage on pins 5, 23, 24 & 25.

Yes, all 12V

If you do, then the next step is to run the fuel pump. Briefly connect a wire from pin 29 to pin 20. You should hear the fuel pump run - it will run for as long as you leave the wire connected. No point in letting it run for more than a few seconds.

It kicked into life just fine

Just to see if by magic anything would happen I plugged the ECU back in. No LED came on, hooked up the PC and it wouldn't connect. Just about to take it back off and it burst into life

Red LED on the ECU and the fuel pump started to prime but kept priming. After 30 secs we shut it off. There was a gargling noise coming from the car but there is 10 litres of fuel in the tank and the slope on the drive is pretty minimal (see gallery - the Elise is the same way round as the photo in front of the garage door). The computer still wouldn't connect though.

Switched ignition off and back on again but no life from the ECU once more.

Is this starting to sound like a loose connection? Or something wrong with the ECU?

Steve, pop round any time mate. If Robin has to come over I'll let you know when he's coming

Cheers

Andy