Spa, Book-a-Track, Saturday November 13 2010 - Blitz Krieg

[kenny]

I may have an SE co-driver to share the drive with and avoid the need for an additional overnight stop. Shaping up to be an excellent trip

[robin]

Insurance is a tricky subject.

(1) Your current insurer should provide reasonable cover (if informed of the trip ahead of time) for everything but Spa and probably the Ring.

(2) Your current insurer will not cover you for Spa unless there is some sort of track day cover and you tell them you're going to Spa. At Spa you have no need of 3rd party insurance - it's up to you whether or not you're happy to risk your car; obviously if you aren't you need specialist cover or stay home.

(3) Most insurers will not cover you for the Ring; they have explicit exclusion clauses in their policy wordings. Obviously you can risk your own vehicle if you're prepared to do so, but there is a legal requirement to have a certain level of cover as it is a public road. The insurance offered by the Ring specialist insurance covers you for loss to your own vehicle, but not to 3rd parties I think. Now if push comes to shove, I think most insurers would struggle to avoid their 3rd party liability - whilst they have exclusion clauses in their policies, they also have an obligation to the 3rd party. In the event of a significant claim (e.g. super car write off or big personal injury/death payouts) it's likely they would pursue you to reimburse them. I think you can mitigate this by taking out temporary insurance (like dayinsure.com, though they don't insure Elises I think). These tend to assume you're staying in the UK and only offer euro cover as required by law (i.e. absolute minimum cover required by each member state), but this is enough for you to drive the ring and not face permanent ruin or a jail sentence ...

Cheers,
Robin

[robin]

P.S. for people that like to worry, you should also consider getting your EHIC card (google it); this will make sure you receive at least emergency hospital treatment without having to stump up a credit card ...

Cheers,
Robin

[tut]

For those in the know, Insurance is a four letter word to Robin.

Would love to know if he takes any extra other than compulsory car insurance.

tut

[tonyg]

I don't know about CCI but REIS (Richard Egger who were CCI until the split the other year) specifically exclude Nurburgring from their insurance.
They also excluded Spa last year,but this year Spa is covered as one of your 4 free track days per year.

[campbell]

Useful analysis, Robin, ta.

I am not so concerned about Spa insurance...whilst not exactly blase about risking the value of UJI, that is at least a quantifiable and therefore potentially acceptable risk. The fact that it's a trackday and therefore 3rd pty cover is N/A actually makes it simpler...I will probably talk to CCI (Egger Lawson as was) for a quote out of interest.

However I recall talking to you about Ring insurance in the past, and the potentially limitless 3rd pty liability is a genuine concern I reckon. I take your point about informing the insurer (I can do this whilst I ask them about European driving cover) but I doubt this will make much difference and I would not like to be a Test Case for a big claim from an angry, or injured, German

Our EHICs are in shape after European trips with the kids, I think. I'll ask the Keeper of the Records to check though!

DailyCover.co.uk has an interesting policy document, offering cover across the EU but excluding use on a Race Track. Now, when the Ring is running a Private Track Day, I can accept that it's a Race Track. But when it's offering public days, what is it then? I guess I might brave a call to these guys...for sh!ts n giggles, as Austin Powers would say.

[tut]

My limited experience at the Ring thanks to snow, is that you are pretty much on your own if things go wrong. Virtually every insurance company has now withdrawn cover, but as it is a so called public road, I do not know how that stands, nor would I want to find out, other than you have to have a minimum of 3rd party insurance to drive on a public road.

You will certainly have to pay on the spot for damage to anything, armco, tow out, edelweiss flowers, and if a German car is involved then you are automatically guilty. My approach is to enjoy it as a unique experience, do not drive it at 100%, although I probably did, treat anyone unknown as an idiot, but even so you can do nothing about dropped oil, and you will still be in the wrong.

tut

[campbell]

I don't know about CCI but REIS (Richard Egger who were CCI until the split the other year) specifically exclude Nurburgring from their insurance.
They also excluded Spa last year,but this year Spa is covered as one of your 4 free track days per year.

The challenge is getting Ring cover whilst it continually inhabits that twilight zone between public toll road and closed race track

Have dropped an enquiry into REIS, hadn't realised they had continued to trade seperately after the CCI changes, cheers.

[robin]

If you ask your insurer they will tell you that you are not covered. This will weaken your case for 3rd party minimum cover as they will argue that you knew you weren't covered seeing as how they told you; it's a small point though, but one that might matter were they to take you to court to recover their losses.

The point to taking out day insurance is that you don't ask; they don't specifically exclude and so you're in with a chance of utilizing their 3rd party euro cover if you run into trouble; also you have something to show the German policeman when he attends your accident on the ring (carefully avoiding showing him your main cover). I hope that nobody ever makes a 3rd party ring related claim off the UK-only day insurance chaps and so they won't ever feel the need to put in explicit exclusions and we're all happy

Cheers,
Robin

[campbell]

Fair enough. 2 steps fwd, 1 step back.

DailyCover.co.uk excludes race tracks (although does not explicitly reference the Ring). My question remains - what is the Ring on a public day...a toll road or a race track?

What is the score for our German friends...are they having the same dilemmas as us?

[kenny]

My plan for the ring is to not bother with insurance and drive like a total woofter. Is that sensible enough? I don't care if I am the slowest out there, I am just wanting to do a couple of laps to say I have done it.

Will have insurance through Richard egger for spa.

[Cisco]

My understanding is that during a Tourist day the Ring is a derestricted toll road.

As such your insurance company is obliged to honour 3rd party cover, however, in the event of a claim being made/paid the insurance company will endeavor to sue you for all costs in a British court. Doesn't really bear thinking about. So I dont.

With respect to your driving, I found that my first few laps were by far the most dangerous due to having to continually check what was coming up in my mirrors. Going really slowly is neither fun nor a good idea.

Ironically the faster you go the safer you are, at my speed anyway.

Frank

[mckeann]

With respect to your driving, I found that my first few laps were by far the most dangerous due to having to continually check what was coming up in my mirrors. Going really slowly is neither fun nor a good idea.

Ironically the faster you go the safer you are, at my speed anyway.

Frank

Franks right Kenny. Just follow me,i'll keep you right


/if in doubt, flat out

[Mike Scib]

With respect to your driving, I found that my first few laps were by far the most dangerous due to having to continually check what was coming up in my mirrors. Going really slowly is neither fun nor a good idea.

Ironically the faster you go the safer you are, at my speed anyway.

Frank

Agree the first few laps are most dangerous, as your backing off for blind corners, Mr GT3 is passing you at 150mph+........interesting!

However the more you learn the track the more you push IMO. Just don't go chasing lap times like myself and Mr G

If i have a car in time i could well be up for Spa, like Campbell i was watching the F1 thinking i must get there soon

[kenny]

Just follow me,i'll keep you right


/if in doubt, flat out

Ok, I'll try that, what could possibly go wrong