Won't start...but battery fully charged

Post by **campbell** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:20 pm

UJI has been on the trickle charger for a couple of weeks, been maybe 4 weeks since last actual outing.

Went into garage to start her this afternoon, key in, fuel pump primes OK, then just loud clicking (and feeling of some mechanical movement) but no starter motor turning going on.

At first thought the trickle charge had failed, but all lights etc running full brightness.

Is my starter motor stuffed perhaps? I remember Robin telling me a year or so back it was starting to sound a bit "lazy", something to do with a click after it disengaged or summat...

Advice welcome otherwise I can't get on with me DIY in the garage this weekend

mac · Post by **mac** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:54 pm

Campbell,

Sounds like the starter might be stuck.

Trying running through the gears and then stick it in 2nd or 3rd and rock the car back and forward.

If that fails sometimes a stiff tap with a hammer on the side of the starter unit can help.

HTH

Mac

Post by **campbell** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:23 pm

Mac,

Ta for that. Tried rocking in 1st gear several times, but haven't pulled the tray off to get access for the hammer treatment so will have a go at that!

Once a starter starts to stick, does that indicate it's time to get on and change it anyway?

And I believe there is some kind of lighter weight starter available, think Eliseparts sell them...any views?

cheers

Campbell

hiscot · Post by **hiscot** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:44 pm

cambell the starter is accessed from the top so no need to remove tray
check wires then make sure its not a duff battery could be just solinode
if it has gone any motor factor can repair or sell a new one
the first elise also had a slower weaker starter from memory i am sure it was upgraded after a year or so

robin · Post by **robin** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:02 pm

Campbell, if the real starter motor is stuck then the headlights would dim a lot on cranking attempts - put it on full beam and see what happens.

If it's just the solenoid failing to move properly then it won't draw any real current and the lights won't dim.

2:1 it's a starter motor problem, but it could also be a duff earth - get two jump leads hooked end to end - attach front end to -ve terminal on battery, attach other end to something solid and metal on the engine, then crank.

If it works, you're looking at a bad earth.

Call me if in trouble - am at home and could spin over later if you need help - might visit 4mil who has similar woes at the same time

Cheers,
Robin

Post by **campbell** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:26 pm

Just ran through all the above drills:

- turning with lights on, still clicks, lights dim in sympathy

- put long jumplead from battery neg to engine block, turned, same result, lots of clicking and nowt else

- put in gear and rocked a lot, different clicking on occasion, does point towards being stuck / dead!

Don't have an ammeter / voltmeter to check battery properly charged, to be fair, but trickle charger indicator hasn't been wrong before.

Sounding like a new starter motor required?

Will have a go with proper jump start off the Golf Diesel later, and also try bump start too just to get out for a run and let the alternator do its thing for a while if I have time.

Robin - if you are coming out west anyway, let me know, but I have Ian on hand so don't make a special trip just for me! Sounds like our first job at head-time will actually be a starter motor, then

thinfourth · Post by **thinfourth** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:58 pm

Sounds like the K click of caterham fame

Stick a wire directly onto the small cable on the starter solenoid to bypass lots of stuff

robin · Post by **robin** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:35 am

You cannot use anything like a normal ammeter to measure the starter current - don't even try - you can measure the normal voltage and then see how bad the voltage dips when the starter turns/clicks. The fact that the lights dim implies that you are taking significant current.

What with the recent frosty weather I suspect the battery has had enough.

Measure the battery voltage while cranking (i.e. with a helper - not Eilidh

) and also after cranking.

It should be somewhere around 13v not cranking and should not drop below ~10v on initial cranking, depending on state of charge.

Cheers,
Robin

Post by **campbell** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:06 am

Hm, the battery is only a couple of years old - changed it at your place with Lawrence in fact - and the car has been better conditioned with trickle charger etc than it ever was. Previous battery lasted about 5 years. Also in a slightly warmer garage than before!

But I guess if it's gone, it's gone. I'm just surprised that the trickle charger shows it as fully conditioned yet it won't turn the starter.

I don't have a voltage meter but will see if I can acquire something.

robin · Post by **robin** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:06 am

Campbell, I take it you don't have this started yet? I could pop over late tonight (won't be before about 9.30pm as have a neighbour in for IT advice prior to that) with suitable volt meter and freshly honed elise electrics skillz.

Cheers,
Robin

Post by **campbell** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:44 am

Your Jedi powers serve you well, master...nup, gave up yesterday as had too much else family stuff to do. More than happy to see you tonight but only if it's truly not a trouble...strong coffee waiting!!

cheers

Campbell

Lawrence · Post by **Lawrence** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:41 pm

I have a starter here if you need it.

Post by **campbell** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:43 pm

Lawrence,

Much appreciated...way things are going, I will! We'll see what Robin has to say if he makes it out tonight. Were I not on bath duty, I'd have come to collect it just in case

cheers

Campbell

Post by **campbell** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:34 pm

Well Robinz Electricz just left, having diagnosed a faulty cell in the battery!

So no need for a starter motor just yet, thankfully.

Cheers to all for valid suggestions and advice as ever.

Campbell

MacK · Post by **MacK** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:41 am

campbell wrote:Well Robinz Electricz just left, having diagnosed a faulty cell in the battery!

Out of interest and for future reference how did Robin come to the diagnosis, and would that be covered by the battery guarantee? I think you said the batterty was two years old, most batteries I've seen recently have a 4 or 5 year guarantee.