Alloy vs Steel uprights on S1

[mckeann]

the ali hubs do tend to wear over a few bearing insertions, resulting in a less than perfect fit, and the bearings can move in the hubs, giving the same symptoms as worn bearings when warm, but are fine when they cool down.

[Edited by Robin - I've created a new thread for this sub-discussion and moved the posts not directly relevant to Sandy's conversion here instead.]

[KingK_series]

the ali hubs do tend to wear over a few bearing insertions, resulting in a less than perfect fit, and the bearings can move in the hubs, giving the same symptoms as worn bearings when warm, but are fine when they cool down.

Only if bearings are removed or refitted really incompetently

- which sadly happens too often

if the hubs are warmed to 80 deg in the oven, a proper press and correctly machined bit of tooling is used against the bearing no damage will happen at all

the trouble is all too often they are abused in the process and get da,maged, - often the bearings are not properly seated which is what causes the flanges to chatter and the flange pin to wear

but its all down to competent maintenance


the steel hubs are shocker in my view and very very inferior to the ally hubs in terms of locating the tie rods and maintaining correct geometry in a corner

they are a massive mistake if you have ally hubs in good order.

[mckeann]

well yeh, if a bearing goes at a race weekend or on frolic, you cant always stick it in the oven.

[KingK_series]

well yeh, if a bearing goes at a race weekend or on frolic, you cant always stick it in the oven.

or you can make sure you fit a new bearing before you go on a frolic, when you have access to all the kit you need to do it competently and avoid the issue completely.

its called preventative maintenance and its a well accepted idea in motorsport - generally.

that way you avoid any possibility of ruining valuable ally hubs that are much more likely to hang onto the toelink and not break as the steel ones do throwing the car off track and ruining the whole trip -

[tut]

just a shame that now I have a complete set of ali hubs with new bearings in, that I am not doing European track days.

Would have been so easy to do a swap when a bearing went, which was a common occurrence on the S1.

tut

[KingK_series]

just a shame that now I have a complete set of ali hubs with new bearings in, that I am not doing European track days.

Would have been so easy to do a swap when a bearing went, which was a common occurrence on the S1.

tut

they are worth a fortune now Tut - for anyone wanting to keep their car factory original and not ruining the value of their car by fitting non original parts - whatever those parts might be ...!

they will keep on accruing value too - S1 values in original spec are only heading up!

[Dipper]

they might be going up in value but no ones going to be retiring on the extra few quid! even if they go up 5k in the next 5 years which is a stretch, whoop de do!

modifying is half the fun. the other half is driving them. Id guess tut(for example) has had more pleasure out of his cars in the 100's of 1000's of miles he's done than if he'd kept it in the garage, polished them and made a few quid.

[KingK_series]

they might be going up in value but no ones going to be retiring on the extra few quid! even if they go up 5k in the next 5 years which is a stretch, whoop de do!

modifying is half the fun. the other half is driving them. Id guess tut(for example) has had more pleasure out of his cars in the 100's of 1000's of miles he's done than if he'd kept it in the garage, polished them and made a few quid.

Or you could keep it original, update the original engine - and I'll start a new thread soon about a plenum K to rival any na honda -, to have much much more fun and a car that will go on increasing in value.

a restored S1 135 sport is going to be worth 15k now - more than a honda conversion, and the gap will just keep on growing, inside a cotton wool wrap or - on track being enjoyed for what it was intended to be...

[Dipper]

they might be going up in value but no ones going to be retiring on the extra few quid! even if they go up 5k in the next 5 years which is a stretch, whoop de do!

modifying is half the fun. the other half is driving them. Id guess tut(for example) has had more pleasure out of his cars in the 100's of 1000's of miles he's done than if he'd kept it in the garage, polished them and made a few quid.

Or you could keep it original, update the original engine - and I'll start a new thread soon about a plenum K to rival any na honda -, to have much much more fun and a car that will go on increasing in value.

a restored S1 135 sport is going to be worth 15k now - more than a honda conversion, and the gap will just keep on growing, inside a cotton wool wrap or - on track being enjoyed for what it was intended to be...

possibly. ive no idea. i'll bow out here though to prevent derailing this fine honda conversion thread.

[Edited by Robin - I've created a new thread for this sub-discussion and moved the posts not directly relevant to Sandy's conversion here instead.]

[campbell]

When did the factory change from fitment of alloy to steel?

[Sanjøy]

[quote="KingK_series"}a restored S1 135 sport is going to be worth 15k now - more than a honda conversion, and the gap will just keep on growing, inside a cotton wool wrap or - on track being enjoyed for what it was intended to be...[/quote]

I think it was Robin I quoted re my 340R ad, they aint no Dinos.

[tut]

On DeRoure

Ali Hub Carrier plus bearing £76 (no longer available)

Steel hub carrier without bearing £414

tut

[tut]

When did the factory change from fitment of alloy to steel?

October '99.

tut

[Mikie711]

Don't believe everything Deroure quotes for prices especially bits no longer available. An S1 bearing from lotus is nearly that price on it's own. An alloy hub with bearing would have been way more than £76.

Steel hubs are considerably easier to work on , cartridge bearing system is simple and quick to change and more robust. Bearings are more expensive but in general I think the later hubs are an big improvement. That said I have never had a problem with the alloy hubs other than having to heat them and always to remember to use duralac etc.

[woody]

Don't believe everything Deroure quotes for prices especially bits no longer available. An S1 bearing from lotus is nearly that price on it's own. An alloy hub with bearing would have been way more than £76.

Steel hubs are considerably easier to work on , cartridge bearing system is simple and quick to change and more robust. Bearings are more expensive but in general I think the later hubs are an big improvement. That said I have never had a problem with the alloy hubs other than having to heat them and always to remember to use duralac etc.

Agree with what you've said, the S2 set-up is undoubtedly superior, especially at higher powers/track use. It's a much more modern design. Think the S2 wheel offset should also help as there is not as much leverage on the bearing.

Think the debate here though is Alloy S1 with a Metro bearing Vs Steel S1 with a Metro bearing. The steel should still be more stable.