Car not starting

[BiggestNizzy]

Drove the car on wednesday night and parked it up. went to drive it again and it won't start it is cranking like a trooper but she just won't fire up.

I can't hear the fuel pump but I am not sure if it should prime every time you turn the ignition.

[Rich H]

Immobiliser if you can't hear the pump, or the pump.

[fd]

Immobiliser if you can't hear the pump, or the pump.

or the CPS . . . pump should prime every ignition on . . . does the tacho show any rm when it's cranking at all ?

Fd

[BiggestNizzy]

Immobiliser if you can't hear the pump, or the pump.

I have switched it off, could it be playing up ?

is there any way I could test it ?

or the CPS . . . pump should prime every ignition on . . . does the tacho show any rm when it's cranking at all ?

Fd

I will check this when I get back to the hotel, it will be full of happy killie fans so I wan't to avoid the place till later on.

[Rich H]

Mine only primes if you disarm the alarm first, if you use the bypass or switch the electrics on first it doesn't prime at all.
You need the immobiliser dongle thing. The key just switches off the siren

[fd]

. . . pump should prime every ignition on . . .

if the immob is disarmed - but you said it was priming every time - sounds ok

Fd

[BiggestNizzy]

. . . pump should prime every ignition on . . .

if the immob is disarmed - but you said it was priming every time - sounds ok

Fd

I thought it should prime every time and it doesn't

I wanted to check

[BiggestNizzy]

ok, back with the car the fuel pump isn;t priming and the tacho does show some revs wnen i crank it.

also I switched the imobiliser off with the dongle

[Rich H]

Hard to tell if immob is actually off with dongle.

[mac]

got fuel in it?

[robin]

This is all for an S1 ...

The fuel pump will only prime after first power up of the ECU. In order to get the ECU to power off you must wait ~30 seconds after you turn off the ignition (completely). If you are somewhere quiet after this period you should hear a clunk, which is the ECU releasing the main relay that is part of the MFRU.

Cranking is only limited by the immobiliser; if your immobiliser was armed it would not allow cranking. There is no way to disable the immobiliser, even on the early cars that had the master override key switch under the pax side dash - this only disables the alarm - the immob is still active and needs to be cleared each time you've left the ignition off for more than about 1 minute.

So:

If you leave the ignition off for about a minute then the red light on the dash should start to blink.

Then use either the remote or the little touch fob to clear the alarm+immobiliser the red light on the dash should stop blinking. Also if you are somewhere very quiet (or you put your head in the boot when you press the remote) you should hear the clunk of the immobiliser relay pulling in and thus making it possible to crank and run the fuel pump.

Now if you turn the ignition on but don't crank you should hear the fuel pump prime. Also you should see the rev counter do it's little dance resetting itself to the zero endstop.

Now when you crank you should see the rev counter get up to about 200 RPM and hold steady while the cranking speed is steady. If the rev counter keeps dropping back to zero chances are the CPS is scewed.

Cheers,
Robin

[Rich H]

My S1 does not do this. This is what mine does:

If the alarm is not set or is switched off with the o-ride just turning on the electrics will initialise the stack and turn on the main electrics but no fuel pump prime, I can also crank the engine but it will not fire.

If I press the alarm dongle then switch on I get fuel pump prime and normal start

If I turn on the electrics and use the dongle I get no fuel pump prime but can get a normal start after a coupl eof extra cranks (As no fuel prime)

Dongle does nothing with the electrics off.

This is a 1997 R with totally standard alarm and electrics.

[robin]

Your car is not normal.

My S1 does not do this. This is what mine does:

If the alarm is not set or is switched off with the o-ride just turning on the electrics will initialise the stack and turn on the main electrics but no fuel pump prime,

Correct - you cannot get the fuel pump to prime while the immobiliser is on. The ECU and dash are not subject to immobiliser and will power up as soon as you turn to the run or start position on the ignition switch. This is consistent with what I wrote above, I think?

I can also crank the engine but it will not fire.

Your cranking should be interrupted by the immobiliser in two places (even on pre-october 97 cars): (a) the immobiliser provides the earth supply to the start relay, (b) the immobiliser relay interrupts the crank signal from the ingition switch to the start relay. It's common for the immobiliser relay to be bridged when the connector corrodes, though usually it's the fuel pump circuit alone, or both circuits together that do this, but even so the earth supply to the relay is rarely hotwired (mostly because people don't realise this is an immobiliser function). I would lay money on yours having had some immobiliser problems in the past and someone having hacked about with the wiring to bypass it in the crank circuit.

If I press the alarm dongle then switch on I get fuel pump prime and normal start

Correct, again this is consistent with what I wrote above I think.

If I turn on the electrics and use the dongle I get no fuel pump prime but can get a normal start after a coupl eof extra cranks (As no fuel prime)

Yes, well in this case it's all about timing. If you turn on the power for more than about 20 seconds before clearing the immobiliser, the ECU will already have reached the end of the priming phase before the fuel pump is in circuit, so it won't prime. Of course it still works, because in general you don't need much fuel pressure for idle - the vacuum of the inlet manifold is probably strong enough to pull the fuel required for idling up from the tank even if the pump isn't running!

Dongle does nothing with the electrics off.

Presumably it turns off the alarm light on the dash? Also, if you listen very carefully I think you'll hear the immobiliser relay in the near side boot (behind the boot bag) pull in.

[quoteThis is a 1997 R with totally standard alarm and electrics.[/quote]

They're not standard according to the wiring diagram

Cheers,
Robin

[robin]

P.S. There is one other possibility - the Elise was originally available without a Thatcham 1 alarm+immobiliser system - I don't suppose many UK cars were sold this way as you couldn't insure against theft that way.

Now I don't believe that this changes the basic immobiliser operation, but I may be wrong.

Cheers,
Robin

[BiggestNizzy]

Ok

I had a look this morning again before work

When I disable the alarm/imobiliser the red light goes off and this allows the engine to crank (i.e. the engine will not crank with the imobiliser on)

When I turn the electrics on ( II on the key) the fuel pump does not prime but the dash does it's wee dance.

When I turn the ignition to III it cranks and I get about 200RPM on the dash.

It says I have 17L of fuel

and it doesn't start.