Hi Iain,
What shape are your plips, teardrop with Cobra or rectangular with one red and one blue button? Perhaps you still have the alarm installation certificate in the book that the owner's manual should be in? Finally, let us know what the chassis number is and I am 99% sure we can work out using the model history in the service manual which model of alarm you have.
I assume there's petrol in the car, BTW ... (don't take this the wrong way, but when I worked at Renault we got a UK car towed back from France because it had broken down on holiday and the local Renault dealer couldn't figure it out ... turns out the fuel level sensor had stuck, so the fuel gauge read half full ... owner didn't think that maybe fuel economy was verging on the Christian ... poured in a gallon of petrol and it just started).
Now, given the complex history I think it's worth assuming that something has changed since you last tested it, so have you checked you still have sparks now?
Also have you checked that while cranking you are getting fuel out of the exhaust pipe (or out of the plug bores if you're running with no spark plugs).
IIRC the original problem with this car was that is would run for a few minutes and then cut out if left to idle; it would cut out straight away if using the accelerator. So that problem has never really been identified (unless it's an ECU fault) and maybe the whole alarm/immob/ecu thing is just a red herring and you're now back to looking at the original fault ...
Cheers,
Robin
Spoke too soon? S1 odd noise...
Hi Robin,
The plip is the teardrop shape with two grey round/oval buttons and the tiny red LED in between.
I didn't get the manual and owners wallet when I bought the car off Matt, and there is no alarm certificate in the pack of bills etc he gave me.
I'll check out the chassis number tonight and let you know.
There should be petrol in the car, as this was one of my thoughts early on (One of my previous S1's wouldn't start one night after leaving a restaurant, turns out it was parked accross a slight hill so the OS was lower than the NS
simple push out and we were off again...).
I will however put another gallon or two in as the gauge is reading 12L now which is close to the refill level.
Taking the plugs out I can see they are covered in petrol, which is why I cleaned them up and dried them out. I didn't turn the car over to expell excess fuel in the bores however, rather I left the plugs out for 5 minutes or so.
My thinking was if I tried to turn the car over without the plugs, the fuel pump would send more fuel to the bores and I would be in a state of equilibrium
If you think it would help, i'll take out the plugs and turn her over to make sure... The plugs were soaked, dripping in fact, so there's plenty of fuel getting through.
I'll also check that there is still a spark again in case some of the fiddling of the last couple of days and wire-cutting etc has distrubed the sparking in some way.
I can smell petrol in the exhaust pipes after cranking for a while.
Last time it was running was when Bob was down. We left it running fine for 20+ minutes and revving the engine was no problem.
It even started first turn of the key the following morning after I'd fitted a brand new battery. It was only when I went to move off that she stalled and hasn't started since
There seem to be loads of sensors, throttle position, crank sensor, etc etc.
Matt replaced the air and temp sensors, is there any way (sans Emerald) that I can test it's not one of these causing this?
Cheers,
Iain
The plip is the teardrop shape with two grey round/oval buttons and the tiny red LED in between.
I didn't get the manual and owners wallet when I bought the car off Matt, and there is no alarm certificate in the pack of bills etc he gave me.
I'll check out the chassis number tonight and let you know.
There should be petrol in the car, as this was one of my thoughts early on (One of my previous S1's wouldn't start one night after leaving a restaurant, turns out it was parked accross a slight hill so the OS was lower than the NS
simple push out and we were off again...).I will however put another gallon or two in as the gauge is reading 12L now which is close to the refill level.
Taking the plugs out I can see they are covered in petrol, which is why I cleaned them up and dried them out. I didn't turn the car over to expell excess fuel in the bores however, rather I left the plugs out for 5 minutes or so.
My thinking was if I tried to turn the car over without the plugs, the fuel pump would send more fuel to the bores and I would be in a state of equilibrium
If you think it would help, i'll take out the plugs and turn her over to make sure... The plugs were soaked, dripping in fact, so there's plenty of fuel getting through.
I'll also check that there is still a spark again in case some of the fiddling of the last couple of days and wire-cutting etc has distrubed the sparking in some way.
I can smell petrol in the exhaust pipes after cranking for a while.
Last time it was running was when Bob was down. We left it running fine for 20+ minutes and revving the engine was no problem.
It even started first turn of the key the following morning after I'd fitted a brand new battery. It was only when I went to move off that she stalled and hasn't started since
There seem to be loads of sensors, throttle position, crank sensor, etc etc.
Matt replaced the air and temp sensors, is there any way (sans Emerald) that I can test it's not one of these causing this?
Cheers,
Iain
'01 S1 Elise (currently for sale)
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
On S1 the only sensor that has to work to start the engine is the crank position sensor. All the rest are nice to have but won't stop it idling - in fact you can disconnect most of them and the ECU will go into a safe mode to compensate - e.g. disconnect coolant temp sensor and it will run on increased idle and drive the fan all the time, etc.
Cheers,
Robin
Cheers,
Robin
I is in your loomz nibblin ur wirez
#bemoretut
#bemoretut
Checked the cambelt for prescence or timing? Pretty sure it's there and okay as it has been running and I haven't heard any untoward snapping noisesfd wrote:Cambelt . . .
Have you checked it ?
Have you checked compression ?
Fd
I am not sure on the timing, as I haven't checked it.. would that not be a more gradual decay of running, rather than sometimes runs, sometimes doesn't?I haven't checked compression, I have no way of doing so. There seems to be some as I get petrol out of the bores by turning over with no spark plugs present. Is there an easy way of testing without a compression tester?
Cheers,
Iain
'01 S1 Elise (currently for sale)
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
Well, strange............
Took the plugs out and checked for a spark..... no spark.
Cleaned them off again, completely soaked in petrol so I cranked her over a few times to clear the bores.
Put a plug back in the HT lead and cranked again to check for a spark, and this time there was.. the difference? I used an old spark plug second time round.
Got my good lady to crank it over and tried all spark plugs thus:
Old plug, new plug x4, old plug.
Both times I tried the old plug there was a spark, but all 4 new plugs in the same HT lead there was no spark WTF??
Old plugs are cacky and need a serious wire brushing but are NGK-R PFR6N.
New plugs were working before but now all seem to be goosed and are unbranded with a code NLP100290 on the insulator.
My first thought was incorrect gapping but I am reliably informed that these type of plugs do not need gapping as they are pre-gapped at the manufacturers...
Can plugs go bad like this?
Confused of the Black Isle.....
Took the plugs out and checked for a spark..... no spark.
Cleaned them off again, completely soaked in petrol so I cranked her over a few times to clear the bores.
Put a plug back in the HT lead and cranked again to check for a spark, and this time there was.. the difference? I used an old spark plug second time round.
Got my good lady to crank it over and tried all spark plugs thus:
Old plug, new plug x4, old plug.
Both times I tried the old plug there was a spark, but all 4 new plugs in the same HT lead there was no spark
WTF??Old plugs are cacky and need a serious wire brushing but are NGK-R PFR6N.
New plugs were working before but now all seem to be goosed and are unbranded with a code NLP100290 on the insulator.
My first thought was incorrect gapping but I am reliably informed that these type of plugs do not need gapping as they are pre-gapped at the manufacturers...
Can plugs go bad like this?
Confused of the Black Isle.....
'01 S1 Elise (currently for sale)
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
If they are soaked in petrol it's unreasonable to expect them to work . . . bake them in the over at 100C for an hour . . . or give them some mild action with a blowlamp . . . use your imagination . . . then retest until they work . . .
It's clearly flooded to fsck . . . regardless of anything else . . .
Also - you don't know the timing is correct now . . . you said it ran then stalled and will now not run . . . classic timing belt symptoms . . . and now it won't start and the plugs are fouling . . . also you won't ever hear a timing belt fail I dunno where that urban myth came from . . . and it only takes a tooth out to cause this kind of issue . . . I'd check it before going any further . . . if it's ok, it's only cost you 1/2 an hour monkey work . . .
You have to go back to basics as you're clearly struggling with multiple problems . . .
Fd
It's clearly flooded to fsck . . . regardless of anything else . . .
Also - you don't know the timing is correct now . . . you said it ran then stalled and will now not run . . . classic timing belt symptoms . . . and now it won't start and the plugs are fouling . . . also you won't ever hear a timing belt fail I dunno where that urban myth came from . . . and it only takes a tooth out to cause this kind of issue . . . I'd check it before going any further . . . if it's ok, it's only cost you 1/2 an hour monkey work . . .
You have to go back to basics as you're clearly struggling with multiple problems . . .
Fd
OK.. but when a timing belt goes, don't the cams stop spinning and the pistons hit the partially open valves? Methinks you would hear that
Checking timing - I take it this can be done in the classic way with a strobe and Tippex? What are the settings from TDC?
Thanks
Iain
Checking timing - I take it this can be done in the classic way with a strobe and Tippex? What are the settings from TDC?
Thanks
Iain
'01 S1 Elise (currently for sale)
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
Chassis number is SCCGA1112WHC33897robin wrote:Hi Iain,
What shape are your plips, teardrop with Cobra or rectangular with one red and one blue button? Perhaps you still have the alarm installation certificate in the book that the owner's manual should be in? Finally, let us know what the chassis number is and I am 99% sure we can work out using the model history in the service manual which model of alarm you have.
Cheers,
Robin
Cheers,
Iain
'01 S1 Elise (currently for sale)
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
'21 Transit Custom (daily driver)
'94 Suzuki Cappuccino
You think wrong . . . if it's jumped a tooth at idle (quite possible) it's likely nothing will have hit anything . . . yet . . . of course if you don't check it and there is an issue . . . you may get some piston valve contact if you try hard enough . . . then you can see if you can hear the tiny wee noise of the valves getting bent . . . over all the other noise an engine makes . . . I'll bet you can't . . .
Of course a total belt failure at 6000 rpm will make some noise as the engine disintegrates into small bits . . . but it wasn't doing 6000 rpm when it stopped was it ?
I have seen this, personally, myself, in the flesh, the engine just stops and won't restart . . . otherwise I wouldn't even suggest checking it to you . . .
If it was my car I would check the cam timing and belt condition now . . . but obviously that's up to you . . .
Oh and the tippex thang is for ignition timing and from an era now almost passed . . . presuming the ECU is working it cannot be wrong.
Fd
Of course a total belt failure at 6000 rpm will make some noise as the engine disintegrates into small bits . . . but it wasn't doing 6000 rpm when it stopped was it ?
I have seen this, personally, myself, in the flesh, the engine just stops and won't restart . . . otherwise I wouldn't even suggest checking it to you . . .
If it was my car I would check the cam timing and belt condition now . . . but obviously that's up to you . . .
Oh and the tippex thang is for ignition timing and from an era now almost passed . . . presuming the ECU is working it cannot be wrong.
Fd
You should fit the plugs that are specified in the owners manual - there are differences between different types of spark plugs and though they all look the same, they aren't the same.
Why not just buy a set from local motor factors today and put them in - they're cheap and at worst you end up with some spares.
Having said that, the 100290 plug is a Rover part number I think, so probably the right plug - just soaked now - but the correct replacement plug is an RC8 PYP - all motor factors have x-ref tables to work out which plugs they carry are compatible - you'll probably find that the NGK plugs you have are compatible.
On the subject of cam belt timing, McKean's car was once two teeth out and it was rough as feck, though it did at least start. But who knows, left long enough on repeated starting attempts it may well have soaked the engine - it was very rough!
It's pretty straight forward to check, easiest checked by someone who's done it before in the first instance, though the info is in the service manual.
Cheers,
Robin
Why not just buy a set from local motor factors today and put them in - they're cheap and at worst you end up with some spares.
Having said that, the 100290 plug is a Rover part number I think, so probably the right plug - just soaked now - but the correct replacement plug is an RC8 PYP - all motor factors have x-ref tables to work out which plugs they carry are compatible - you'll probably find that the NGK plugs you have are compatible.
On the subject of cam belt timing, McKean's car was once two teeth out and it was rough as feck, though it did at least start. But who knows, left long enough on repeated starting attempts it may well have soaked the engine - it was very rough!
It's pretty straight forward to check, easiest checked by someone who's done it before in the first instance, though the info is in the service manual.
Cheers,
Robin
I is in your loomz nibblin ur wirez
#bemoretut
#bemoretut
Tut, I've sent you a PM as email seems to be failing . . .
One other thing on spark plugs and wire brushes . . . generally a bad idea as the metal from the wire brush tends to contaminate the ceramic and makes them much more likely to flash over, either sand blast them, leave them alone or even better just buy some new ones . . .
The default rover ones are platinum tipped long lifers, DVA specifies non long lifers (which may be the number you refer to Robin) but at the end of the day either will work just fine . . .
FWIW I think the belt failure thing is unlikely but it's certainly something you need to discount . . . given that you did have it running and now it won't despite clearly having fuel and spark (sometimes) . . .
I'd get the plugs out and leave them out for a couple of days . . . also you need to stop putting more and more fuel in every time you crank it - pull the fuel pump fuse or injector harness beforehand . . . else you'll just keep making things worse . . .
Time to take it to someone who knows their stuff I think . . .
Fd
One other thing on spark plugs and wire brushes . . . generally a bad idea as the metal from the wire brush tends to contaminate the ceramic and makes them much more likely to flash over, either sand blast them, leave them alone or even better just buy some new ones . . .
The default rover ones are platinum tipped long lifers, DVA specifies non long lifers (which may be the number you refer to Robin) but at the end of the day either will work just fine . . .
FWIW I think the belt failure thing is unlikely but it's certainly something you need to discount . . . given that you did have it running and now it won't despite clearly having fuel and spark (sometimes) . . .
I'd get the plugs out and leave them out for a couple of days . . . also you need to stop putting more and more fuel in every time you crank it - pull the fuel pump fuse or injector harness beforehand . . . else you'll just keep making things worse . . .
Time to take it to someone who knows their stuff I think . . .
Fd