S1 Honda Converison

[shortie2]

Are the exhaust primary lengths /dias similar to original.
If not you might be in trouble with driveability and peak power, if its similar to the F20 then it will be critical !!!, mine wouldnt rev cleanly above 8k and had very poor torque , all down to a 'professionally ' made exhaust manifold, we fabricated a new one and exactly copied all the different primary lengths and dias and the difference was amazing
Are there any handling penalties with sticking the honda eng/box in? How much heavier than a K set up is it?

[Gourlay83]

Alan

N1 TUT is not on the road at present, but tucked up in the garage.

tut

No Problem.

Nothing serious I hope.

[Gourlay83]

Hi Alan,

Those Honda ECU connectors are not water proof I believe. The MEMS one was waterproof. I believe you will see some spray and condensation where that ECU is fitted - Neil had terrible trouble with running problems caused by corrosion of the ECU connectors on his old Honda conversion. You may need to provide a weather shield of some sort to keep the worst of the weather off the connectors.

Cheers,
Robin

Thats a good point and something I had to change.

I have changed the 02 sensor plug and c101 (Big Grey Plug) for water proof connections for that very reason. As the plugs are inside the car on a Civic Type R. The only ones that are kind off exposed are the ECU connectors but will have a closer look when the clamb is back on.

Im curious to what you do for a living Robin, I have read a few of your posts.

[Gourlay83]

Are the exhaust primary lengths /dias similar to original.
If not you might be in trouble with driveability and peak power, if its similar to the F20 then it will be critical !!!, mine wouldnt rev cleanly above 8k and had very poor torque , all down to a 'professionally ' made exhaust manifold, we fabricated a new one and exactly copied all the different primary lengths and dias and the difference was amazing
Are there any handling penalties with sticking the honda eng/box in? How much heavier than a K set up is it?

My Manifold LOL

Its completly different and not everyone is going to agree with this. Its closest to a 4-1, Made by a well know/respected company in the North of England.

Its the safest way to keep heat away from the Driveshaft/tripod. There is a slight disadvantage in midrange torque but you actually get a slight gain in Peak Power as to the Free Flowing Design. Stark got around 235 BHP and 169 ft/lbs (From Memory).

I havn't driven the car yet so can't give you my thoughts but can give you my reasons. When i was looking into Converting the car all i heard was driveshaft trouble so thought that the Design of the Manifold made sense on that front. Even the people that said its no trouble were still stripping down there joints and re greasing with new gators every year ????

FOR THE RECORD - I know for a N/A engine it should be 4\2\1 this has been done for years, never said any different. If i lose some mid range torque but gain a reliable car its worth it.

Better asking me when its on the road - give me a couple of months. I will post exactly how I feel about it and if its crap its coming off and ill get Jim@2bular to make me one, if he is still talking to me after the 7"or 8" exhaust thingy.

As for the Wieght, yes they are a wee bit heavier and i believe the OSR corner wieght is higher due to the longer gearbox.

Did you convert the car yourself Shortie ? how did you find it ?

Cheers
Alan.......Exhausted

[Jacobite]

Looking good Alan

[tut]

Alan

If you have seen the before pictures of N1 TUT you will see that she needed all new bodywork, so that was fitted plus repair work and a complete re-spray.

As I do not need or can really afford two Elises on the road or track, N3 is the work horse and N1 can be the family heirloom for the present.

tut

[shortie2]

Are the exhaust primary lengths /dias similar to original.
If not you might be in trouble with driveability and peak power, if its similar to the F20 then it will be critical !!!, mine wouldnt rev cleanly above 8k and had very poor torque , all down to a 'professionally ' made exhaust manifold, we fabricated a new one and exactly copied all the different primary lengths and dias and the difference was amazing
Are there any handling penalties with sticking the honda eng/box in? How much heavier than a K set up is it?

My Manifold LOL

Its completly different and not everyone is going to agree with this. Its closest to a 4-1, Made by a well know/respected company in the North of England.

Its the safest way to keep heat away from the Driveshaft/tripod. There is a slight disadvantage in midrange torque but you actually get a slight gain in Peak Power as to the Free Flowing Design. Stark got around 235 BHP and 169 ft/lbs (From Memory).

I havn't driven the car yet so can't give you my thoughts but can give you my reasons. When i was looking into Converting the car all i heard was driveshaft trouble so thought that the Design of the Manifold made sense on that front. Even the people that said its no trouble were still stripping down there joints and re greasing with new gators every year ????

FOR THE RECORD - I know for a N/A engine it should be 4\2\1 this has been done for years, never said any different. If i lose some mid range torque but gain a reliable car its worth it.

Better asking me when its on the road - give me a couple of months. I will post exactly how I feel about it and if its crap its coming off and ill get Jim@2bular to make me one, if he is still talking to me after the 7"or 8" exhaust thingy.

As for the Wieght, yes they are a wee bit heavier and i believe the OSR corner wieght is higher due to the longer gearbox.

Did you convert the car yourself Shortie ? how did you find it ?

Cheers
Alan.......Exhausted

The honda is not in my elise ,its in my darrian rally car, sits NS in a conventional mid engine setup with a hewland transaxle , the engine is mechanically std internally but fitted with jenveys and dry sumped plus a racetech ecu which fiddles with vtec at lower revs to enhance driveability.
heres a couple of pics of car and ex manifold, i may be wrong about the K20 but on the F20 if the primaries are any longer than this it all goes horribly wrong

[Gourlay83]

Are the exhaust primary lengths /dias similar to original.
If not you might be in trouble with driveability and peak power, if its similar to the F20 then it will be critical !!!, mine wouldnt rev cleanly above 8k and had very poor torque , all down to a 'professionally ' made exhaust manifold, we fabricated a new one and exactly copied all the different primary lengths and dias and the difference was amazing
Are there any handling penalties with sticking the honda eng/box in? How much heavier than a K set up is it?

My Manifold LOL

Its completly different and not everyone is going to agree with this. Its closest to a 4-1, Made by a well know/respected company in the North of England.

Its the safest way to keep heat away from the Driveshaft/tripod. There is a slight disadvantage in midrange torque but you actually get a slight gain in Peak Power as to the Free Flowing Design. Stark got around 235 BHP and 169 ft/lbs (From Memory).

I havn't driven the car yet so can't give you my thoughts but can give you my reasons. When i was looking into Converting the car all i heard was driveshaft trouble so thought that the Design of the Manifold made sense on that front. Even the people that said its no trouble were still stripping down there joints and re greasing with new gators every year ????

FOR THE RECORD - I know for a N/A engine it should be 4\2\1 this has been done for years, never said any different. If i lose some mid range torque but gain a reliable car its worth it.

Better asking me when its on the road - give me a couple of months. I will post exactly how I feel about it and if its crap its coming off and ill get Jim@2bular to make me one, if he is still talking to me after the 7"or 8" exhaust thingy.

As for the Wieght, yes they are a wee bit heavier and i believe the OSR corner wieght is higher due to the longer gearbox.

Did you convert the car yourself Shortie ? how did you find it ?

Cheers
Alan.......Exhausted

The honda is not in my elise ,its in my darrian rally car, sits NS in a conventional mid engine setup with a hewland transaxle , the engine is mechanically std internally but fitted with jenveys and dry sumped plus a racetech ecu which fiddles with vtec at lower revs to enhance driveability.
heres a couple of pics of car and ex manifold, i may be wrong about the K20 but on the F20 if the primaries are any longer than this it all goes horribly wrong

I see.... so you used the S2000 engine, looks like a lot of fun. I have heard mixed views on Manifolds but have seen Dyno Plots of both. When the car is on the road will get it rolling roaded and post results anyway.

Cheers
Alan

[shortie2]

yes , s2000, raceenginedesign did a lot of developement on this engine and tried various manifolds including toda and other jap tuners , they found best results with a std engine internally was to use the std manifold, when you measure the primaries on the std one you think that it would never work as they all get progressively shorter as you go from cyl 1 to 4, most aftermarket ones for the s2000 all go to great lengths to get them exactly the same which doesnt work,unless you put in aftermarket cams, aparently when mugen were developing the s2000 engine and installation they had big problems with the packaging of the exhaust so they altered the cam grinding on each individual cylinder to compensate for the difference . Now im guessing they didnt have the same packaging probs with the civic range so you may find that yours goes like a rocket out of the box.
Good luck with it cos its looking like a great job you are doing

[Gourlay83]

yes , s2000, raceenginedesign did a lot of developement on this engine and tried various manifolds including toda and other jap tuners , they found best results with a std engine internally was to use the std manifold, when you measure the primaries on the std one you think that it would never work as they all get progressively shorter as you go from cyl 1 to 4, most aftermarket ones for the s2000 all go to great lengths to get them exactly the same which doesnt work,unless you put in aftermarket cams, aparently when mugen were developing the s2000 engine and installation they had big problems with the packaging of the exhaust so they altered the cam grinding on each individual cylinder to compensate for the difference . Now im guessing they didnt have the same packaging probs with the civic range so you may find that yours goes like a rocket out of the box.
Good luck with it cos its looking like a great job you are doing

Interesting stuff, only ever worked on a few S2000 all pretty much standard. Huge power standard though

Like i said before, ive heard so many mixed reports about manifolds. It is a critical part of the Engine and a bit of a balck art, lets just hope ive made the right choice.

Alan

[Gourlay83]

Looking good Alan

Which ECU system did you go for ?

Looking at Hondata just now but don't know where to get it fitted.

Alan

[Jacobite]

Hi Alan
Craig had fitted a Hondata the the S/C car which allows you to do a bit more electronic fiddling(Not that I have that knowledge) and gives you the reverse lockout capability ~It's an Alloy boot car too and it just sat along the N/S of the boot with the other electrics at the back ~ didnt have any problems with dampness as wasn't aware of Craig having had any either and that was with the injectors exposed too ~now got a cover for them, also horrer stories of gear cables filling with water and splitting when they freeze ~ doesnt get that cold often in the burgh but might up your way and it doesnt look too difficult to make a rain shield to fit over the gear selectors/cable ends if needed ~ N/A car has lived outside since I picked it up and havent had any bother (touch wood)

The silver N/A cars got an Omex which was remaped from the origional Pheonix map to eliminate a drop in power 3000-3500 rpm by Tdi in London in July

I had it back there in October to have the cold start map completed as they had only had the car for 4 hours during the summer to map it and put in their best guess cold start map which wasnt doing well up here in Oct
they actually rated the Origional honda ECU as good enough for normal use as its less tempremental to voltage drops ~the Omex throws in the towel below 10.5volts as well as needing the solinoid for reverse gear ~ there are just some times it wouldnt go into reverse and I'd have to push it backwards even when the engine was hot

I since fitted 3 earth leads running from the battery to a junction box on the bulkhead then onto ECU, Block/Head and Gearbox as Craig recomended I do when I picked his brain and its been much better since although I always park in gear ~now just choose reverse
cheers Hamish

[Gourlay83]

I first thought i could use the Fan Switch from the ECU but after some investigation found that it is used as a secondary switch to the one used in the Radiator (Civic Type R). I don't have a Hondata as yet (to adjust it)so I bought a Revotech fan controller, you install it on the return from the radiator and choose what fan speed you want. I also bridged in the ECU Fan Switch as the Original Civic did. So basicaly i have 2 fan fan switches just incase.

When i took it out the box i thought it looked sh*t but after i installed it i was pretty happy.

Comes with a Relay and a little loom, threw that away and wired into the excisting fan Circuit. Works well

[Gourlay83]

Car is now off to paint.

All fibre Glass panels removed ready for the Painter. Then transported the car to his Paintshop, long weekend......

Hopefully in a couple of weeks I will have Freshly Painted Burnt Orange Elise.

[mwmackenzie]

I'm sure you'll have the only burnt orange S1 in that case, sounds awesome, can't wait to see it in the flesh, great thread, great work


Mark