Coolant temp problems - Confirmed HGF

[robin]

[quote=woody]

Robin, the fretting coincided with the liner high point though the height did dip from .0025" (we were using metric feelers, but I can't get my head around mm - I couldn’t get decent repeatability with the vernier and digital callipers - with a .75 x 1.5 x 10" block) to 0.001 next to this point. I am assuming this was a uniform loss of height rather than localised.

The fretting itself was not deep. I cleaned up the head face using the edge of the block; there was still quite a bit of crud on the surface. Once the face was cleaned up the fretting did not appear nearly as bad; using the block over that point there wasn't enough room for a thou feeler. I'd still have that area down as most probably for the sealing failure.

woody[/quote]

Funny how the camera never lies, until it comes to taking pictures of cylinder heads, at which point what looks perfect to the naked eye looks like a bag of sh1te on the camera

The top face of the liner will still be flat (they are hard as nails) - it will be that the liner has moved in the block a bit (or the block has moved around the liner, IYSWIM) and this has lead to the two faces being out of alignment.

However, over all the liner heights are still lower than you would hope for, so whether or not the failure is exactly there, it seems likely that the failure will repeat ...

Cheers,
Robin

[steve_weegie]

Help.....

During the reassembly, somehow the cam timing that was lined up, ended up not being lined up by a very long way. How this happened, i dont know.... Some valves are bent, dont know how many until we get the head off tomorrow.

I'm in trouble here, as I have no other means of transport & am having to borrow my brothers car to get back and forward to macs at the moment.

Is there anybody here that could help with a loan of some valves and a spring compressor, or an EU3 head until i get mine sorted? I hate to ask such a huge favour, but i'm in dire straights here....


Cheers,

Steve

[woody]

Would a 1.4 h16v head or valves do?

[Rich H]

Sh!t

What is an EU3 head?

I have a standard K head in the shed at home you can borrow if there isn't one closer. Its off my 97R and is untouched after removal at around 45k miles. Still sealed up and so on, no pitting or damage as I remember.

I hate to ask but did you not turn it over by hand after assembly? We did when re-building mine and found a similar problem, we had torqued up the crank bolt against the valves as the blet had slipped several teeth while faffing about, got away with it so far (10k miles later!) as we corrected the timing and checked it about 10 times before going for a start. Still had my heart in my mouth though!

Rich

[Stu160]

Steve

I have lots of valves,just give me a shout.

Stu

[Rich H]

Would a 1.4 h16v head or valves do?

As long as its a high port head then yes, I have one fitted (As Metro heads go for £20 on flea bay and Elise heads go for £200) If the valves are standard they will fit too. I have a set of std cams and pulleys too you can have if required.

[Rich H]

Few heads on flea bay at the mo:

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search. ... %3D1&fgtp=

[BiggestNizzy]

steve I have the guts of my old head your welcome to them i need the head for a table though plus it's soft but valves etc you can have

[steve_weegie]

Guys, what can i say... What a response.... I am once again humbled by SE comrades. No smiley can convey my thanks!

Stu, I'll give you a bell tomorrow and try and sort somthing out. You are a gentleman sir

Thanks Rich and Woody for the offers of assistance... Brilliant!

I believe the difference between the EU2 and EU3 engines is that the EU3 engines have a cam position sensor so they can run sequential injection. Without this, you can only run batched, and thats no good for the S2 ECU.

Cheers,

Steve

[steve_weegie]

Nizzy, I might take you up on that, depending on what Stu says tomorrow... I'll need to replace the valves i borrow of him so expect a call!

Thanks everybody... You've made a depressed man optimistic again! SE therapy at its best!!

[roadboy]

The heads are the same and most EU2 engine still have the cam position lobe on the exhaust cam. The sensor itself is on the cam cover so this is easily swapped. Only very early EU2 heads don't have the correct cams. Even if you got one of these its not a big job to swap the cams over when you've got the head off.

It will be exhuast valves that are bent. Usually the ones on 1 and 4 in this situation. Very unlikely that the inlets will be bent unless you seriously messed up. Valves aren't particularly expensive so its not too much of a disaster.

Better luck next time.

Dan@JPS

[steve_weegie]

Cheers Dan,

Aye, second time lucky please Top info on the engine, cheers! I'll see how things go tomorrow re: valves and at the worst I might be able to blag a std eu2 head and swap the cam cover as you suggest.

Having done the cam belt only a couple of months ago, i really am at a loss as to how i let this happen.... Both inlet and exhaust cam drive gears were still lined up after the "incident" but bore no relation to the 90 degree mark. Can only think that the belt jumped while i was doing up the pulley bolt, and I fluffed up the tensioner... This is where several errors in my procedure come to light.

1. Didnt check the pulley mark against the cam position after putting the bolt on.
2. Turned the engine with the plugs in, mistaking valve hit for compression.
3. Didnt check the pulley to cam alignment marks after 2 full turns.

After spending a lot of time yesterday port matching my inlet manifolds and taking every precaution rebuilding the head, I feel like a bit of a dick at the moment Still, you live and learn i guess....

Cheers,

Steve

[steve_weegie]

Cheers neil, fingers and toes crossed here! I might be up sh*t creek, but everybody here is a big paddle for me at the moment!

[robin]

I have tons of standard inlet valves you can have FOC and a valve spring compressor tool also.

I don't have a standard head at present, but there's going to be a couple about - probably makes sense to continue bodging yours up though, given the liner height issues.

I also have spare head gaskets.

TIP: don't ever trust the timing marks on the pulley that drives the alternator - there are (at least) two timing marks, and the one on the inside is for the TDC timing marks; the one on the outside (hard to see usually) is to align with the vertical line in the plastic moulding; rather than mess about with any of these, set the timing using a small inspection mirror (like a dentist would have) - with the alternator pulley removed, looking along the top most groove (between the teeth) of the crank timing gear you should see two dimples that straddle the vertical cast into the oil pump housing - once you've seen it, you'll know what I mean - this cannot be wrong as it lines up using the flat on the crank and is immune to people adding timing marks for whatever random reason ...

Give me a bell if you need spares and I'll dig them out. I have no exhaust valves AFAIK, though ...

Cheers,
Robin

P.S. If you're really stuck I can probably find a pre-built head that you could use ...

P.P.S. Next time, leave out the spark plugs (no compression) and turn over with just a small ratchet that way you know any resistance is piston-to-valve contact and not compression. Never use a breaker bar to turn the engine over unless you know it's scrap or it's full of oil (in the bores!).

[steve_weegie]

Cheers Robin, may i take you up on the offer of the spring compressor and the inlets please? I'm going to phone stu tomorrow and see if i can get some exhausts too as i suspect they are bent too.

I'm 100% positive that i lined the 2 dimples on the cam drive gear with the 90 degree mark on the block before I put the pulley on, thats the wierd thing. Its not like the cam gears were a tooth out either - they were at 45 degrees when the the bottom end was at 90 degrees. Almost like i'd done the timing at TDC, but there's no way on earth id do that.

Im in edinburgh and am meeting my bro at 5 to blag his car for a few days. I'll give you a bell!

Cheers,

Steve