Spoke too soon? S1 odd noise...

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:23 pm

Alt pully will be fine, I thought you meant the crank pulley, as long as the toothed pulley is standard then you should be fine.

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:24 pm

Take the tensioner off altogether if it's in the way, only one bolt.

fd · Post by fd » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:38 pm

Aye - remove the tensioner completely.

The lower crank sprocket has two small dimples cast into it on the face that faces the chassis . . . they are sometimes not very well defined but will be there . . .

you must take the sprocket off the crank to ensure the crank itself is OK - just pull it towards the chassis.

ETA : you must identify these marks as they are critical to ensuring the belt is correctly installed . . . you cannot miss this step.

Fd

timmsky · Post by **timmsky** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:40 pm

...so this toothed bottom pulley is supposed to come off?

belt's off and the cam pulleys have behaved themselves, but i can't check this bottom pulley...

Can you see the woodruff key on the outside of the pulley, i.e. is that what mates with the groove of the alt pulley as well?

If so, then it's fine.

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:43 pm

Not always depends if the slot is full depth of the pully or not. Alt pully should have similar yes.

Pull the sproket off especially if there have been problems down there before.

mac · Post by **mac** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:51 pm

the crank to sprocket (wee toothed pulley) has an internal woodruf key as described earlier. On the out side of the sproket is a little proud "jellybean" shape is to ensure the standard crank is located properly and the notches are aligned.

Mac

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:51 pm

Which is a pig to find in the dark adn even more difficult to locate a pulley on!!

timmsky · Post by **timmsky** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:19 pm

I think this may be the problem

This is where the woodruff key should be:

Is this the correct pulley? I was concerned when I saw the VVT stamp, but maybe it is unfounded:

mac · Post by **mac** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:25 pm

Yup - looks like the right one.

The bit at 12 o'clock is the "jelly bean" as it there to locate the outer pulley - the dots at 9'oclock at the ones Fd is talking about for ensuring you have 90 btdc.

The woodruf key should fit into the slot at the back. Have a feel of the crank - you should find either a bit projecting up (good) and groove that should have something in it (bad) or a rough bit where the bit projecting up used to be and has been snapped (also bad)

HTH

Mac

timmsky · Post by **timmsky** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:30 pm

I think there may be a larger problem...

this is the end of the crank:

This is not what I expected to see for a woodruff slot.... having replaced many pulleys on lathe drives over the years, I have never seen such a cowboy job...

I guess this means either a new crank or a considerable amount of work to remove the crank and have a new slot cut?

bugger

fd · Post by fd » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:32 pm

Is there a key in the end of the crank ? - what does it look like ?

The pulley looks fscked. I assume that the pics are both of the cam pulley from the crank . . .

IT also looks to me like the alt pulley has been put on wrongly (look at the witness mark 180degrees opposite the key) . . .

So what may have happened happened a long time ago . . .

Some muppet had a problem with the alt pulley coming loose and changed it for a geary one - then bolted the alt pulley on without engaging the locating key 180degrees wrong . . . the alt pulley has then turned over time . . . and perhaps finally meshed with the key and all of a sudden the crank pulley bolt will come loose . . . and if the key on the crank is damaged (or perhaps even that pulley is so fscked) that it can turn on the crank now the bolt is loose . . .

Total fsck up . . .

Now - if you replace that pulley and the crank key is ok it may still be ok . . . you can only tell when you compression test it . . .

The two dimples are at 9 oclock on the last picture . . .

Fd

fd · Post by fd » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:36 pm

Hmmm, perhaps not all cranks are the same - mine is defo a woorruf key . . . or is it - no matter . . .

Time to check whether they all are . . .

I can't believe that used to be a key slot - looks like a non round end which is a simpler alternative (and lets you change the oil pump more easily). . . but I'm not sure

Ask on selcock or the lotus bbs . . .

All still may not be lost . . .

Fd

fd · Post by fd » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:43 pm

crank looks fscked. difficult to see in the picture but if it's supposed to be a flat sided crank end (and it does look like that) then it's worn away on the left hand side of the flat . . . you'll be able to see better . . .

I'm sure you could botch it back together one more time woth a new crank pulley and some chemical metal . . .

. . . at least to check the compression . . .

Fd

timmsky · Post by **timmsky** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:47 pm

fd wrote:Hmmm, perhaps not all cranks are the same - mine is defo a woorruf key . . .

Time to check whether they all are . . .

I can't believe that used to be a key slot - looks like a non round end . . . but I'm not sure

Ask on selcock or the lotus bbs . . .

All still may not be lost . . .

Fd

The toothed pulley from the end of the crank has a slot in it and a raised lump next to the slot. My guess is the end of the crank should be the inverse of that, but there should be a woodruff key to mate with the slot in the pulley and the slot in the end of the crank.

It looks like some muppet has machined the end of the crank with a flat maybe because the previous woodruff key incident left the crank with an elongated/distorted slot. I don't think there has been a woodruff key in there for some time, but my guess would be that the force at that part of the engine would be way too much for a machined flat and a non-matched pulley.

The ally pulley actually has two slots machined in it at 180 degrees from each other. With no timing marks it can be fitted either way round.

Either way I don't think this is the way Rover meant it...

MacK · Post by **MacK** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:55 pm

Been reading this thread with interest as it has developed, but not knowlegable enough to add any thing, but I have had a look at my service manual, in the engine bit from Rover, and the end of the crank-shaft is shown like it is in the last photo, i.e with a flat quarter (ish) bit on it.

Is there a 'grub' screw on the pulley that locks onto the shaft, or has the pulley got a similar flat to locate it? I have come across several shafts/pulleys locked together with grub -screws on flats, but never on anything like an engine.......