Alloy vs Steel uprights on S1

[Kelvin]

You can't really compare a Ford GT40 or Ferrari GTO to a K series engined Elise S1. Cars such as the GT40 are all about the engine and many of them will have been raced so will have history and it's the history and provenance that matter as much as anything else. The Elise is mostly about the chassis. In years to come a standard S1 Elise with the same engine (block) from new might command a small premium over one with a different k series engine but that's all as the market will accept the fact that many will have different engines given it's a simple shopping trolley engine. What it will be worth will mostly be about the overall condition it's in and/or if it's a rare special edition where the engine might matter a little bit more. I always figured that an S2 Sport 190 will be quite sought after in years to come.

I had a look round a 26R the other day. Now there's a car that commands a premium nowadays. Spent it's early life in the UK. Shipped to America then to Italy before landing back in the UK again.

I've had my Toyota engined S2 SC for very nearly two years. I was recently offered £400 more than I paid for it and I bought it from a dealer. It's value has held up surprisingly well for a five year old car.

[KingK_series]

You can't really compare a Ford GT40 or Ferrari GTO to a K series engined Elise S1. Cars such as the GT40 are all about the engine and many of them will have been raced so will have history and it's the history and provenance that matter as much as anything else. The Elise is mostly about the chassis. In years to come a standard S1 Elise with the same engine (block) from new might command a small premium over one with a different k series engine but that's all as the market will accept the fact that many will have different engines given it's a simple shopping trolley engine. What it will be worth will mostly be about the overall condition it's in and/or if it's a rare special edition where the engine might matter a little bit more. I always figured that an S2 Sport 190 will be quite sought after in years to come.

I had a look round a 26R the other day. Now there's a car that commands a premium nowadays. Spent it's early life in the UK. Shipped to America then to Italy before landing back in the UK again.

I've had my Toyota engined S2 SC for very nearly two years. I was recently offered £400 more than I paid for it and I bought it from a dealer. It's value has held up surprisingly well for a five year old car.

Are you going to say the same about the McLaren F1? with its production V12?


- Lanzante's look after more of these than anyone else, happy to say I've had a go in a F1 GTR - with its production V12.

Chris Pearson - Lotusracing.co.uk who sells so many S1 is quite clear, they need the original engine to keep their value.

Dean at Lanzante's just a few weeks ago asked me to help with a 120bhp and a VHPD for a S1 and S1 Exige he was putting into a collection - both NEEDED original engines for that purpose.

[Kelvin]

You can't really compare a Ford GT40 or Ferrari GTO to a K series engined Elise S1. Cars such as the GT40 are all about the engine and many of them will have been raced so will have history and it's the history and provenance that matter as much as anything else. The Elise is mostly about the chassis. In years to come a standard S1 Elise with the same engine (block) from new might command a small premium over one with a different k series engine but that's all as the market will accept the fact that many will have different engines given it's a simple shopping trolley engine. What it will be worth will mostly be about the overall condition it's in and/or if it's a rare special edition where the engine might matter a little bit more. I always figured that an S2 Sport 190 will be quite sought after in years to come.

I had a look round a 26R the other day. Now there's a car that commands a premium nowadays. Spent it's early life in the UK. Shipped to America then to Italy before landing back in the UK again.

I've had my Toyota engined S2 SC for very nearly two years. I was recently offered £400 more than I paid for it and I bought it from a dealer. It's value has held up surprisingly well for a five year old car.

Are you going to say the same about the McLaren F1? with its production V12?


- Lanzante's look after more of these than anyone else, happy to say I've had a go in a F1 GTR - with its production V12.

Chris Pearson - Lotusracing.co.uk who sells so many S1 is quite clear, they need the original engine to keep their value.

Dean at Lanzante's just a few weeks ago asked me to help with a 120bhp and a VHPD for a S1 and S1 Exige he was putting into a collection - both NEEDED original engines for that purpose.

Which production car did they lift the stock 6.1l V12 from? I have a history of the McLaren F1 book at home and Paul Rosche (who headed BMWs M division) designed and built Gordon Murray the engine specifically for the F1 and only for the F1 (it even says so on the Mclaren website). The engine was based on a previous design they were going to use in one of their own cars but didn't. BMW subsequently used the S70 engine in a few Le Mans race cars. Moreover, again the history and the provenance of the car will have a huge impact on its value given how special the F1 is and how few were built. The K series is a simple shopping car engine used in tens of thousands of Rovers so the comparison to short run of V12s built for a single purpose is rather silly.

I can completely understand why someone putting a car into a collection would want one that had the original engine (given a choice why wouldn't you) but that doesn't have any real significance to the future value of any other standard Elise. As I said, the future value of a standard Elise will depend upon its condition primarily.

[KingK_series]

You can't really compare a Ford GT40 or Ferrari GTO to a K series engined Elise S1. Cars such as the GT40 are all about the engine and many of them will have been raced so will have history and it's the history and provenance that matter as much as anything else. The Elise is mostly about the chassis. In years to come a standard S1 Elise with the same engine (block) from new might command a small premium over one with a different k series engine but that's all as the market will accept the fact that many will have different engines given it's a simple shopping trolley engine. What it will be worth will mostly be about the overall condition it's in and/or if it's a rare special edition where the engine might matter a little bit more. I always figured that an S2 Sport 190 will be quite sought after in years to come.

I had a look round a 26R the other day. Now there's a car that commands a premium nowadays. Spent it's early life in the UK. Shipped to America then to Italy before landing back in the UK again.

I've had my Toyota engined S2 SC for very nearly two years. I was recently offered £400 more than I paid for it and I bought it from a dealer. It's value has held up surprisingly well for a five year old car.

Are you going to say the same about the McLaren F1? with its production V12?


- Lanzante's look after more of these than anyone else, happy to say I've had a go in a F1 GTR - with its production V12.

Chris Pearson - Lotusracing.co.uk who sells so many S1 is quite clear, they need the original engine to keep their value.

Dean at Lanzante's just a few weeks ago asked me to help with a 120bhp and a VHPD for a S1 and S1 Exige he was putting into a collection - both NEEDED original engines for that purpose.

Which production car did they lift the stock 6.1l V12 from? I have a history of the McLaren F1 book at home and Paul Rosche (who headed BMWs M division) designed and built Gordon Murray the engine specifically for the F1 and only for the F1 (it even says so on the Mclaren website). The engine was based on a previous design they were going to use in one of their own cars but didn't. BMW subsequently used the S70 engine in a few Le Mans race cars. Moreover, again the history and the provenance of the car will have a huge impact on its value given how special the F1 is and how few were built. The K series is a simple shopping car engine used in tens of thousands of Rovers so the comparison to short run of V12s built for a single purpose is rather silly.

I can completely understand why someone putting a car into a collection would want one that had the original engine (given a choice why wouldn't you) but that doesn't have any real significance to the future value of any other standard Elise. As I said, the future value of a standard Elise will depend upon its condition primarily.

That is not Lanzante's view.

nor mine

nor Chris Pearson's

[robin]

You missed the point of my original post. I have nothing to say one way or another on various models you've mentioned. Campbell asked:

So how do I future proof the value of my broadly original S1 when the engine lets go and the block needs changed?

And I answered:

Not that I ever sell cars I would expect to leave it as is (i.e. rebuild with your block if required) is probably best value in long run. The sort of person that will care about the engine being 100% standard will also want a standard exhaust, standard interior .... they'll probably even want standard red konis

So the next category after "original spec" is "well maintained and sensible" I think.

I wasn't advocating an engine transplant, engine conversion, etc. My reference to "original spec" vs "well maintained and sensible" is that his car (on original engine) is in the latter category not the former. The cost to return it to the former would not be recouped at point of sale, at least not yet.

Cheers,
Robin

[campbell]

Apologies again for thread drift, my fault. Let's get back to alloy vs steel uprights

[Kelvin]

I'm genuinely interested. Which production BMW was the S70/2 engine lifted from to be used in the McLaren F1. My big book o' McLaren F1 facts says that the engine was built specifically for the F1 but was also used in the BMW V12 LM and LMR race cars. A cursory google confirms this. It also references the V12 engine used in the 850CSI but it's not the same engine. Now interestingly (given your hatred for Honda engines) it also says that Gordon Murray tried to convince Honda to build him a 4.5l V12 or V14 because the F1 cars used Honda engines but they wouldn't do it. He also used the Honda NSX as the benchmark car after driving it. Anyway, the legendary S70/2 engine that powers the F1 is considered by many to be the greatest engine ever built installed in one of the greatest cars ever built so I'm not sure how it can be mentioned in the same breath as the K series.

There's an S1 Elite for sale currently with a fresh (so different from original) Climax engine going for £60k which seems about right. I'm not sure why a standard Elise would be so very different with a different k series from the original. Book mark the thread and check back in 20 years and see where the prices are.

But Campbell is right this thread has drifted off course a bit but I am now re-reading my McLaren F1 book so that's no bad thing.