Strange Handling when worked hard..

[IanD]

Went a wee blast this afternoon (Strathaven - B743 - Murikirk A70 Glespin then intended doing a zig zag across Leadhills, Sanqhuar and Elvanfoot roads)

But near Glespin steering started to feel weird - had done 20miles of flowing bends at anything between 35mph and close to 3rd gear max but steering really lost any sharpness going into bends and even felt like you couldn't place it where you wanted going along straights (almost like driving on ice).
Felt like the lower suspension had become detached or loose and like it was buckling under any kind of turning movement. Stopped and looked thinking the anti roll bar or something in front lower suspension would be detached but nothing obvious. Had a very brief look at rear as well but all seemed normal (not that I know what normal really is !). Forgot to check if there was any big heat variances in the wheels but not sure that would have been relevant.

After my look around I set off again and all seemed ok although i didn't drive nearly as fast back home. i not driven the car on track since I bought it, I was driving quite hard today and the brakes were starting to complain (but the discs do need changed) and I'm sure I've driven as hard as this before.

Any ideas, have I overcooked the shock absorbers or is there something that can become loose or generate play when over stretched/overheated ?

[mckeann]

check the allen head bolts that bolt through the top of the upright where you would adjust the camber. these bolts are prone to snapping under hard track use, or if they have been under/over tightened at Ggeo time, and it can give vague steering, either from front or rear. There are 2 bolts on each, if one snaps you'd get vague steering, if the other snaps, you'll lose your wheel.

[campbell]

Had you roasted the brakes to the point that the front tyres were "going off"?

Not sure of the amount of heatsoak which can occur, it's only a hunch.

[mckeann]

Had you roasted the brakes to the point that the front tyres were "going off"?

Not sure of the amount of heatsoak which can occur, it's only a hunch.

If its happening on the straights, i'd wager that its not the tyres.

steering started to feel weird - even felt like you couldn't place it where you wanted going along straights (almost like driving on ice)

[campbell]

Let's hear it for hunches!

[IanD]

Did a visual general suspension check with wheels still on and all ok including the bolts on upright, no shocks leak.

Took it a run and handling seems back to normal. Would class yesterday driving as spirited in the context of a car forum, nothing crazy/unsafe and i've never done track days so i'm no demon driver. Car has done 40k so shocks/suspension probably not perfect, brand new Yoko AD07 all round last year and Geo reset at same time, nothing highlighted then as seriously wrong.

Still interested in what anyone thinks it was to change the feel so much, maybe it is tyres as Campbell says. Perhaps I'll just need to redrive the route later today as a test as it is a gorgeous day and the roads were fun.
Will post up as a run some point later, did some roads in this area on the Parko run last month and I'm sure a good route could be made of roads around there.

[Mike Scib]

Camber of the road?

B743

[campbell]

Did a visual general suspension check with wheels still on and all ok including the bolts on upright, no shocks leak.

But did you check thoroughly enough for what Neil (McKean) mentioned ref the Allen bolts? Presume they need pulled out for that.

[robin]

You might not see whether or not they're cracked unless you remove them. If you do remove them, first order a complete set of replacements and fit those instead of putting the old ones back in. I'm sure MMC will be able to get them for you - best order the correct bolts as they need to be the correct grade of bolt and the correct length.

Could also be the old steering rack problem where you get a load of play between the rack and the track rod which causes a floaty feeling.

Cheers,
Robin

[mckeann]

you'll probably need to take the wheel off so you can look at the hub from above. I've seen the fron one of the 2 bolts snap, and the wheel toe'd out massively when cornering forces were put on it, but returned to the right position when stopped.

[IanD]

Thanks for info. Finally fully checked bolts today on both sides with wheels off, don't have replacement upright bolts yet but they are definitely ok, i will replace them as recommended here. Inner brake pads having nothing left on them and discs must be at end of their life but that isn't a surprise.
Thanks to Dirkpitt for help last weekend showing me and checking out one side but we couldn't get locking nuts off nearside front or back.
Helpful local garage today, lots of hammering and locking nuts now removed.

As many have already mentioned, ordered these last week and will dump the locking nuts
http://www.eliseparts.com/products/show ... heel-bolt/

Leigh told me off for rusty state of the suspension so will do some cleaning up of it over the summertime now he has pointed out what I can do fairly easily with a bit of time and effort.

[OlberJ]

Ian, Andy Baird (automek on here) is just up in College Milton in EK if you want to have a word with him i'm sure he'd take a look at it on the ramp for you and sort whatever needs done.

Bust/tired shocks will give you a vague feeling under cornering but worth checking out all the other suspension components you can see 1st though.

[dirkpitt]

Thanks for info. Finally fully checked bolts today on both sides with wheels off, don't have replacement upright bolts yet but they are definitely ok, i will replace them as recommended here. Inner brake pads having nothing left on them and discs must be at end of their life but that isn't a surprise.
Thanks to Dirkpitt for help last weekend showing me and checking out one side but we couldn't get locking nuts off nearside front or back.
Helpful local garage today, lots of hammering and locking nuts now removed.

As many have already mentioned, ordered these last week and will dump the locking nuts
http://www.eliseparts.com/products/show ... heel-bolt/

Leigh told me off for rusty state of the suspension so will do some cleaning up of it over the summertime now he has pointed out what I can do fairly easily with a bit of time and effort.

ha yes ian, shame we couldn’t get the locking nuts off they were a nightmare! still cant believe how tight the wheel bolts were on! and no copper slip.
good to hear you have it all sorted.... now we can do a little work on her and keep her up to scratch .
yeah i was a little surprised to see how much corrosion was around the suspension , you could see there was a lot of rust flaking...so lost a few mill of steel, but on the front drivers side there was no sign of damaged suspension and looked in order. however, the coilover springs did look quiet rusty and i would like to take them out and examine! there was no damper leakage from what we could see. anti roll bar looked ok too.
as you say the inside pad was about 5 mm left maybe less: shock: .compared to the outside which was double the thickness. the inside edge disk there was a deep lip so they were shoot in my opinion. if i had a micrometer handy i would bet my bottom dollar that the disc thickness was under
anyhow, these things can be rectified easily enough with a bit of time and work.....when the time comes ian, new discs pads and brake fluid, will be that cocktail of the day

on another note….the AP twin pot callipers, im surprised how much un even wear you get from the inside pad and the outside pad!.....the way the calliper is set up the pistons hydraulics are in series from each other, resulting in the first piston taking on most if not more of the hydraulic pressure; while the outside piston receives the remainder, probably due to the fact the hydraulic pressure has further to travel....if you get my meaning

if they could even out the hydraulic pressure the result would be epic…..much better braking performance