Peugeot 206 Problems - NLC

[Stevo9]

Hoping someone can maybe point me in the right direction. Wife's car has a problem, basically the symptoms are as follows...

'99 V 1.1 Peugeot 206 - Petrol - 75K miles

When the car is started it either idles at really high revs or revs high then dies away about every second consistently (this also happens when stationary and the clutch is depressed).

When driving, especially in the first two gears, it revs really highly and runs rough spluttering a bit then back to high revs (especially when lifting off the throttle). Occasionally it will just stall for no reason and coast to a halt. Most of the time it just starts back up again and you drive away - but not always!!

When you change gear (again worse in the first two gears) the engine races like the clutch is slipping unless you lift off the throttle a couple of seconds before changing and let the revs die away.

It has been in and out of the garage and after a good bit of searching on internet, it seems a few Peugeot 206s have similar symptoms -although no specific cures are offered. I asked the garage to check the throttle valve and they reckon it is fine. IMHO top candidates are Coil Pack, Idle Valve and or Clutch. Before empting more money into the local garage, I thought I would see if any wise SE'rs could help.
Thanks very much for any assistance. Much appreciated. Stephen

[gorrie]

Left-field maybe... but, I used to get similar symptoms on my 1st Elise.. when I'd left it in the garage for weeks and the battery charge had dropped off. Revs would hunt on idle badly, or sometimes just rev high. If driving it in that state, the revs would shoot up on gear change (ie, whilst clutch depressed)... which made it interesting !!.

As my alternator was OK, I'd either just take it for a long drive.... or stick the battery on to charge... and it would all go away. Might be worth a charge before splashing any more cash?

[David]

Has it had the battery disconnected or had it go flat?

[robin]

If it cycles once every second or so in neutral then I might add the lambda sensor to the list, assuming it has one.

Cheers,
Robin

[roadboy]

If it's idling too high it's because it's getting too much air. There are no other reasons.

I would be looking for air leaks if the idle control valve is definitely ok.

Have you had a diagnostic check done?

Dan

[Stevo9]

Thanks chaps.

I will check the battery, it is run pretty infrequently so this be making matters worse. A diagnostic check was done and they couldn’t find any problems, but unluckily every time it goes in, it runs fine. It was the throttle valve that was checked and came back fine. Sorry idiot question, Is the idle valve the same as the throttle valve?

Cheers

Stephen

[robin]

The lambda sensor can make the ECU do this too - though not sure it can happen on a 206 - but if the lambda tells the ECU it's running too rich/lean, the ECU will try and lean off or increase the fuelling. Sometimes it cannot do this without also increasing the idle speed - pretty sure the 111R had a problem like this at some point or another.

Anyway, no the idle control valve and the throttle valve are probably not the same thing on a '99 206 - the throttle valve is mechanical, pulled by a cable connected to the accelerator pedal; the idle control valve will be a stepper motor that opens/closes to allow more/less air into the inlet manifold. It may stick or just be broken or the ECU may be deciding to open/close it at the wrong times or too much/too little because some other electrical gremlin is confusing the ECU.

In a perfect world, the ECU would open it up on cold start, close it whenever the throttle is open, then open again when the throttle is closed; the exact degree to which it's then open depends on coolant temperature and engine speed - at high engine speed, closed throttle, the idle control valve may be wide open in order to assist with emissions control; at lower engine speeds, closed throttle, the valve will be open to the extent required to maintain idle speed. Some cars have variable idle speed based on whether or not the car is rolling (triggered by the electronic speedo drive, typically) , but I think this is not likely on a '99 206.

It could also be a vacuum leak as Dan says, though to produce such dramatic changes in engine speed it would surely need to be a leak that opened/closed quite quickly.

Cheers,
Robin

[weemark]

I had a firend who had a 106 gti of simliar age/mileage, it had this exact problem. We tried to find any air leaks etc as we thought it could ahve been that but after searching for a very long time on the internet i found that if you get the ecu erased and re-written even with the exact same map that was taken off all would be fine! This worked for us.

[David]

I had a firend who had a 106 gti of simliar age/mileage, it had this exact problem. We tried to find any air leaks etc as we thought it could ahve been that but after searching for a very long time on the internet i found that if you get the ecu erased and re-written even with the exact same map that was taken off all would be fine! This worked for us.

This was my thoughts too - I've heard similar stories about Fiat /Peogeut ECUs of this period. That's why I asked if the battery had been disconnected as this can cause the ECU to loose it's setting. When the car is new, they seem to be able to sort them themselves out but older cars seem to have more trouble - maybe because engine sensors are ageing and out of spec.

[roadboy]

It could also be a vacuum leak as Dan says, though to produce such dramatic changes in engine speed it would surely need to be a leak that opened/closed quite quickly.

Or it could be that the ECU is detecting the raised idle and cutting back the ignition to drop it back down. This is pretty standard on most ECUs and will cause such a cycle in idle speed. This is usually caused by an air leak or a sticking/faulty idle control valve.

Dan

[paulW]

lol, typically searching the internet for this problem and I end up back on SE.

Did you get this rectified?

Having exact same issue...after really cold spell, the 206 just stalled on me...then problem started getting worse.
replaced tps, as problem seemed to occur on throttle lift off. also replaced iacv and cleaned everything up.

its been put into the local garage, but they have been unable to fix it....they suspect it maybe the 2nd lambda sensor, but are unsure.

i did notice a kink in the seal between the inlet manifold and the throttle body, but enough to cause an air leak?

[paulW]

ps.

my initial thoughts was the clutch dragging too...but I got the clutch replaced anyhow as needed to sort a chankshaft oil seal.

Soon as you dip the clutch revs plummet very quickly (more than normal), can catch it with the trottle and revs pick up no problem...so don't think it is plugs\coil, etc.
Plus it drives fine besides this issue, maybe a wee bit down on power, but hard to tell in a 10 year old 1.4.

OBDII error indicated TPS issue, but not sure if there is a reset procedure after replacement. IACV reset no problem on its own.

[Stevo9]

lol!

I replaced the battery last year and that seemed to help, however, exactly same issue appeared this year again. Replaced the coil pack (AA p&L ) and it has been perfect ever since.

Hope this helps!

Stephen

[paulW]

Thanks.

Got the car back to the garage and it is running fine...although after having the car for 3 days they say they haven't touched anything.
Bite on the clutch seems a bit higher, but besides that idles seems good and acting as normal.

Going to get Peugeot to throw it onto their testbook just to check sensors anyhow.

[paulW]

I had a firend who had a 106 gti of simliar age/mileage, it had this exact problem. We tried to find any air leaks etc as we thought it could ahve been that but after searching for a very long time on the internet i found that if you get the ecu erased and re-written even with the exact same map that was taken off all would be fine! This worked for us.

Got car back from Peugeot, they say they can't find anything wrong..no fault found.

They have updated the software on the ECU to the latest level...so fingers crossed.