Head Gasket Issues

[Dundeesfinest]

Hi.

Im new to this forum and new to owning an Elise. Currently have a Type 25 S2, 2003 plate. This was bought at the end of November. Unfortunately due to work and the problems I am about to list I have not had the chance to enjoy it very much. Long story short is I appear to have been had a little from the garage I bought the car from in Nottingham. When I bought the car it came with a full service history as well as an AA report saying the car was in tip top condition. However two days after driving the car home I noticed the temp gauge was all over the place. Usually ranging from 87 - 110 depending on the speed I was going. Despite this the car seemed to run perfectly and there were no warning lights on. The manual also states that if the car gets up towards 120 this is when I should panic. Despite this I booked the car into the local garage (I stay an 800 mile round trip from Nottingham so couldnt take it back) who, after a few days of various tests, said the head gasket needs replaced and gave me a quote of £1000. This included a new water pump and timing belts etc. Not sure why all these need replaced but I trust the garage owner. Due to Xmas, New Year and work courses down south I was unable to get the car into the garage until 6th Jan. It was not used at all from the date the problem was diagnosed.

The issue I now have is that the garage have just informed me today that they feel it is too big a job for them to take on. The do not feel confident in carrying out the work as they say they need to fully remove the front of the car and the engine to do it! Is this correct? He also said he called around several garages in the area trying to find someone to carry out the work but no-one will. I stay in a small village so i think if its not a basic ford or vauxhall they dont know what to do. He stated that he found some guy in Edinburgh online that might be worth a shout. In fairness he has offered to take the lotus through for me on his recovery truck and bring it back for the hassle caused. Can anyone advise if http://www.scottishlotusspecialists.co.uk are any use? I mean that in the politest possible way. I just want the car fixed asap so I can start getting the enjoyment it was bought for! Can anyone also advise if it might be something other than the head gasket? Also what sort of cost should be involed in a job like this?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Derek

[philthy]

Its really not that hard a job, no the front doesnt need to come off for a head gasket - thats just stupid.

Should take a good garage about 3 hours to do it and cost about 500-600 providing its reasonably straight forward, and nearly every garage in the world has had to do a rover head gasket at some point.

[mwmackenzie]

I always use Ali at SLS for all my work, head gasket shouldn't be much over £600 if I remember correctly. Steer clear of any garage that says the front of an Elise needs to come off to get to the engine, it's in the rear lol.! Dan Jude (roadboy on here) is also reputable and is just outside Newcastle.. I'd be calling the garage you bought it from too, does the AA check not come with some kind of warrenty?

All the best and

Mark

[Dundeesfinest]

Its really not that hard a job, no the front doesnt need to come off for a head gasket - thats just stupid.

Should take a good garage about 3 hours to do it and cost about 500-600 providing its reasonably straight forward, and nearly every garage in the world has had to do a rover head gasket at some point.

Thanks for the reply. Not sure what the issue is with the garage or why it took them 11 days to decide to tell me they cant do the job but I now have to deal with it and find somewhere good to carry out the repairs at a reasonable cost.

[tut]

As we advise all Elise owners on here, if your car is out of warranty then take out AA Parts & Labour, its a no brainer especially for HGF.

The £500 would have just about covered it.

tut

[robin]

Err, 2-3 hours to do a head gasket on a K-series in an Elise is pretty good going ... maybe possible with a laddie and no issues, but to be honest, it's not the time taken to do the work, it's the time taken to resolve (and remedy) the root cause of the failure.

Search on here (and SELOC and no doubt every other K-series related forum) for causes of HGF and you'll see that there is a lot more to it than just replacing the gasket.

In short, you'll need to decide whether the cylinder liner heights are tolerable, the head has been damaged (rebound hardness testing is recommended), whether it needs skimming (in which case peening is recommended to minimize the risk of opening up porosity that can then allow gas to get by the fire rings). You should also consider: replacing the the thermostat with a PRT-type remote thermostat, replacing the head bolts, replacing the oil rail with the stiffer Land Rover type.

Belt & tensioner change is standard practice on HGF - the plus side is you won't need to change the belt at the next C-service.

Water pump is often changed at the same time. I've never bothered, but that doesn't mean that's sensible, just that I haven't been bitten by it yet.

Engine is in the back; it would be the back clam that comes off, but there is no need for that - albeit a little fiddly, but access to all the required bits and bobs is through the wheel arch liner, from the top or from underneath.

There are plenty of things to go wrong and I would take it to a specialist. In strict alphabetical order, here are the usual suspects:

MMC (Murray Motor Company) are the official Lotus dealer in Scotland. http://www.murraylotus.co.uk/
SLS (the link you posted) is in Edinburgh and will have done lots of these (ex-MMC mechanic).
SPS (the other specialist people on here tend to use) is roadboy on here and is in Newcastle; Dan will have changed more than 1 or 2 of these in his life too http://www.spsautomotive.co.uk/

[Dundeesfinest]

Thanks for the prompt replies guys. Does anyone have any contact details for Ali at SLS? The link for the website seems to be broken and I dont know of any other contact details. I appreciate the other two suggestions but I feel Murray Motors may be too expensive and Newcastle is a bit out of my way.

Cheers

Derek

[mwmackenzie]

07961445483 is Ali's number..

[Stu160]

I would get the head skimmed unless it looks perfect when you take it off.
The term "head gasket failure" is very rairly correct when it comes to the K series.
Most common causes are ;
The liner heights being to low.
Overheating which causes the head to go soft then the gasket sinks into it.
Porosity in the casting( not so common but once skimmed, can be a problem)

If the problems started within days of you buying the car, I would guess the garage knew about the problem, and have perhaps put the head back on again without doing what Robin has stated above.

Best advice is get it sorted and then enjoy the car

Cheers

Stu

[Corranga]

Not such good luck, i'd be calling the garage you bought it from and having a word.

The K Series does have it's faults, this probably being the worst of them all.

If you're in Dundee (as your name suggests) drop me a PM. I live in Dundee, had head gasket failure sorted by Ali @ SLS maybe 2 years ago, we could maybe meet up for a chat if you like?

Chris

[Doc883]

I'd be having a serious chat with the garage you bought the car from. Did it not come with any warranty?

[cla5h]

Don't motor traders have to provide a statutory 3 month warranty? If the car's not up to scratch, I'd be expecting them to rectify it.

[Dundeesfinest]

Basically the car was bought from a small idependant garage just outside Nottingham. The guy said I could purchase a warrenty at extra cost but it came with a standard one months warrenty. As the car had a full service history and a recent MOT etc I didnt see the point in taking out an extra warrenty. I planned on getting the car checked out when I got home at a garage I trust and getting any issues sorted through the warranty. The car is in good condition with the obvious exception of the Head Gasket. I have left several messages at the garage, forwarded two letters and still no responce. This is a fight I wont give up on but at the end of the day I still need the car repaired.

So far Ive been given the mobile number for Ali at SLS which I am greatful for. Does anyone know why the website link doesnt work?

Again, thanks for all the replies, suggestions and thoughts.

Derek

[gorrie]

Can't comment on why the SLS website is down. He is a hard man to get a hold of though, so just keep trying his phone.

Has it been 100% confirmed as Head Gasket Failure by your local garage... or is that just an assumption? (just asking because it's not clear if your garage know much about the Elise.. and maybe have made an assumption). How did they test for HGF? Are you loosing coolant at all?

The temperature raising & lowering eratically could also be down to air in the coolant system. The sensor which sends the temp reading to the stack can only read the temperature at that specific position in the system... so, if there is air being pumped around.. for that few seconds the air is at the sensor the reading will rocket... once the coolant is then pumped over the sensor again, it will come back down... and that cycle goes on & on.
It's possible your coolant level has been run low at some point (maybe by previous owner) & not bled correctly. It's possible your radiator end caps are leaking causing loss of coolant & air to get in?

Either way though... Ali should be able to diagnose it for you...