Have a problem with an S1 which will not start after sitting for a couple of hours. It is electrical as it starts with a jump start on the first touch of the key and then runs perfectly after that. Park/start after a few minutes is ok anything longer is a problem. I initially thought is was the leave it for a few days in the garage and it wont start situation but after being stranded in Dornoch last Saturday afternoon this is proving not to be the case. Tried disconnecting the battery and then reconnecting after a couple of days and it started no problem - leave it connected for a couple of hours - problem.
Had it checked out this afternoon by the autospark from work. He checked all the circuits/fuses etc for draw on the battery. No draw on the battery found but he suspects that the battery is being undercharged. He checked out the wiring and located a black cable terminated onto the main battery contact on the starter solenoid drawing approximately 8/9 Amps continuous draw - what does this cable supply.
A clamp meter on the alternator main cable with all systems in operation lights/wiper/heater etc shows to be producing approximately 45 Amps - is it correct to assume that the S1 K series as standard fit alternator is a 45 Amp - but the end product on the main battery terminal shows a charge rate of approximately 4 Amps on the clampmeter going into the battery at 14.2 Volts is this the total Amps surplus going into the battery?. The alternator is keping up with the demand.
Has/can anyone out there check this out - what should be going into the battery with all systems(light etc) operating.
The battery was checked (although it is quite new) cells terminals connectons etc and is fine.
The 8/9 Amp draw at the starter terminal (Pos) by black cable only appears to drawn when running and is a constart draw. The readin is 0 (zero) when not running or when switched off.
The main feed (brown) from the alternator has a strange insulated crimp approx 7" from the solenoid connection and the cable sectiion reduces - what is this and why?
Any help with the above much appreciated.
John
Car Not Starting
Re: Car Not Starting
The lump in the alternator cable is a fuse ("fusible link").
The alternator will provide whatever current is necessary to keep the system voltage at 14.2v. So if you turn all the lights off, the flow out of the alternator will reduce, the voltage will stay the same, and the current flowing into the battery will stay the same.
My #1 guess would be that the battery is dud. Have you actually had it hooked up to a tester?
My #2 guess would be poor earthing. Have you checked the two earth straps?
On the earlier S1 the current to the ECU and engine sensors and actuators came via the stud on the back of the starter - hence the 8/9A draw? On later S1 there are two extra wires on the battery +ve terminal that feed current to the ECU directly. In the case of the later S1, then, I wouldn't expect to see constant current flowing through the starter stud.
If you turn off the engine/remove key. Turn on the headlights and main beams lights for 5 minutes. Then measure the battery voltage each minute.
If the battery voltage drops steadily over this period or ever drops below the 12v mark, I would guess the battery is shagged - but any tyres&batteries place should have a battery discharge meter that can verify this for you.
Cheers,
Robin
The alternator will provide whatever current is necessary to keep the system voltage at 14.2v. So if you turn all the lights off, the flow out of the alternator will reduce, the voltage will stay the same, and the current flowing into the battery will stay the same.
My #1 guess would be that the battery is dud. Have you actually had it hooked up to a tester?
My #2 guess would be poor earthing. Have you checked the two earth straps?
On the earlier S1 the current to the ECU and engine sensors and actuators came via the stud on the back of the starter - hence the 8/9A draw? On later S1 there are two extra wires on the battery +ve terminal that feed current to the ECU directly. In the case of the later S1, then, I wouldn't expect to see constant current flowing through the starter stud.
If you turn off the engine/remove key. Turn on the headlights and main beams lights for 5 minutes. Then measure the battery voltage each minute.
If the battery voltage drops steadily over this period or ever drops below the 12v mark, I would guess the battery is shagged - but any tyres&batteries place should have a battery discharge meter that can verify this for you.
Cheers,
Robin
I is in your loomz nibblin ur wirez
#bemoretut
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Re: Car Not Starting
The earth lead from the battery to the nearside chassis bolt is a problem on early S1's. It corrodes and is difficult to get to, so worth taking the battery out and trying to unbolt it and clean it.
We had a problem on N1 that Craig could not trace, so took the easy way out, heavy duty cable from the battery through the central tunnel of the car and onto an engine mount.
tut
We had a problem on N1 that Craig could not trace, so took the easy way out, heavy duty cable from the battery through the central tunnel of the car and onto an engine mount.
tut
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hardrockjock
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:02 pm
Re: Car Not Starting
Thanks for that Robin/Tut.
The "lump" in the cable is definitely not a fuse of any type it is simply a crimp where one x section of cable joins a lesser x section of cable. The crimp is then sheathed in a transparent heat shrink of some type and then in turn sheathed again. It would appear to be an original part of the loom as it would be an awful lot of work to go to it what is a very awkward area to work in. If it should be an actual in line type fuse what rating should it be.
The car was registered on 04/07/2000 so does that make it an old a new or on the cusp S1. The +terminal on the battery has 4 separate "eyes" connected onto the battery post.
1 Brown - light in weight/section
1 Red - heavy weigh/section
2 - Comprising two number siamised Brown - light in weight /section cables each
A total of five cables at the post. The car is standard with no extras fitted. I have had it for nearly three years with no bother apart from a new battery last year.
The " lump" has now been cut out of the loom as the lighter weight side was found to be burnt and brittle/broken and caused the charging light to come on. It has now been relplaced with a similar cable tail - charging light now goes out - but now no fuse? in line. This was done yesterday evening and this morning no start. Will take battery out today and check out battery earth. Have concern if now have unproteced circuit.
Any thoughts.
The "lump" in the cable is definitely not a fuse of any type it is simply a crimp where one x section of cable joins a lesser x section of cable. The crimp is then sheathed in a transparent heat shrink of some type and then in turn sheathed again. It would appear to be an original part of the loom as it would be an awful lot of work to go to it what is a very awkward area to work in. If it should be an actual in line type fuse what rating should it be.
The car was registered on 04/07/2000 so does that make it an old a new or on the cusp S1. The +terminal on the battery has 4 separate "eyes" connected onto the battery post.
1 Brown - light in weight/section
1 Red - heavy weigh/section
2 - Comprising two number siamised Brown - light in weight /section cables each
A total of five cables at the post. The car is standard with no extras fitted. I have had it for nearly three years with no bother apart from a new battery last year.
The " lump" has now been cut out of the loom as the lighter weight side was found to be burnt and brittle/broken and caused the charging light to come on. It has now been relplaced with a similar cable tail - charging light now goes out - but now no fuse? in line. This was done yesterday evening and this morning no start. Will take battery out today and check out battery earth. Have concern if now have unproteced circuit.
Any thoughts.
Re: Car Not Starting
2000 is the end of the S1 so deffo "newer".
I've never actually looked into what's in the lump - it's called a "80A fusible link" in the wiring diagram - so I assumed that's what you've discovered (and now cut out of) your loom.
On a 2000 car, the ECU wires comes straight from the battery, however the wiring diagram suggests the fuel pump is still spliced off the starter motor stud - so the 9A current you're seeing out of that stud while the engine is running will be the fuel pump I think.
If the car survives being left with battery disconnected for extended periods, but doesn't survive when the battery is connected, there must be a discharge somewhere? The alarm/immobiliser has around 100mA drain from the battery - so perhaps that's enough to kill the battery?
Cheers,
Robin
I've never actually looked into what's in the lump - it's called a "80A fusible link" in the wiring diagram - so I assumed that's what you've discovered (and now cut out of) your loom.
On a 2000 car, the ECU wires comes straight from the battery, however the wiring diagram suggests the fuel pump is still spliced off the starter motor stud - so the 9A current you're seeing out of that stud while the engine is running will be the fuel pump I think.
If the car survives being left with battery disconnected for extended periods, but doesn't survive when the battery is connected, there must be a discharge somewhere? The alarm/immobiliser has around 100mA drain from the battery - so perhaps that's enough to kill the battery?
Cheers,
Robin
I is in your loomz nibblin ur wirez
#bemoretut
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hardrockjock
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:02 pm
Re: Car Not Starting
Robin/Tut
Removed battery and got it checked out - it's fine (relatively new unit but you never know). Battery chassis earth - fine also. Disconnected heavy brown "fusable link" alternotor cable at solenoid stud (on advise of Hiscot) and a week later the car is still starting no probleM. Ok the charging light stays on but as the car has not moved from my garage and as this disconnection was a proving/probable cause exercise then that is no problem. It lloks like the alternaotor is the culprit and is responsible for the 3.5Amp draw shown on the meter. Have you ever come across this problem/solution before.
Above may be of assistance to someone else.
Removed battery and got it checked out - it's fine (relatively new unit but you never know). Battery chassis earth - fine also. Disconnected heavy brown "fusable link" alternotor cable at solenoid stud (on advise of Hiscot) and a week later the car is still starting no probleM. Ok the charging light stays on but as the car has not moved from my garage and as this disconnection was a proving/probable cause exercise then that is no problem. It lloks like the alternaotor is the culprit and is responsible for the 3.5Amp draw shown on the meter. Have you ever come across this problem/solution before.
Above may be of assistance to someone else.
Re: Car Not Starting
IF the alternator is drawing 3.5A while the ignition is switched off then the regulator pack must be gubbed (and something must be getting quite warm - 3.5A@12v = 42W!).
I suggest replacing you get the alternator removed and either replace the regulator pack or replace the whole thing for an exchange unit.
Cheers,
Robin
I suggest replacing you get the alternator removed and either replace the regulator pack or replace the whole thing for an exchange unit.
Cheers,
Robin
I is in your loomz nibblin ur wirez
#bemoretut
#bemoretut