Victors Mutterings part 2

[jj]

how much does that diffuser weigh out of interest?

The one Nizzy got made for me is spot on - I got it powdercoated black and it should look good on the new car.

Hardly any different to the standard ones weight-wise.

[Andy G]

And even then it will be minimal. What sort of speeds do you get up to on the sprints and are there any fast (80mph+) bends? If not, I'd save my money for more important things.

/2p

Dan

Couldnt agree more.

Reckon given the speeds you'll be doing there will be no effect

[mwmackenzie]

how much does that diffuser weigh out of interest?

I didn't put it on the scales but not much at all just a wee sheet of alloy, e-mail the guy on e-bay and I'm sure he'll weigh one for you, he's agreat guy to deal with, e-bay name is bmxbandit26 ..

Mark

[Victor Meldrew]

think the wing is on hold for now.. going full hog with the hoffmans nitrons.. so thats the budget hammered for this month. I will speak to Hoffmans and ask what they think about big wings... just for a bit of balanced perspective...

they do sell a hue mungus reverie carbon thingy...

[mckeann]

I can tell you right now that Randy agrees with the big rear wing theory, but that is for a race car, not a hillclimb car. There's no doubt that it makes a difference, but i think the important thing is to spend your cash in the areas that will have the biggest effect.


In all honesty, the biggest area you can improve will be the driver. When i raced in lotrdc, i had by far the heaviest car in my class, and it was at the lower end of the power charts, albeit not the lowest. My biggest advantage was time in the seat. Whereas everybody else favoured prepping the car to within an inch of its fiberglasd shell, i drove my car at every oppertunity, and really knew and understood it at the limit. Thats bound to be even more important in hillclimbing.

I would just get the car prepped, and get as much time in the seat as possible. You'll get more out of 1K worth of driver training or test/trackdays than you will out of a full aero package/lighter car/better suspension/best tyres.

[Victor Meldrew]

I can tell you right now that Randy agrees with the big rear wing theory, but that is for a race car, not a hillclimb car. There's no doubt that it makes a difference, but i think the important thing is to spend your cash in the areas that will have the biggest effect.


In all honesty, the biggest area you can improve will be the driver. When i raced in lotrdc, i had by far the heaviest car in my class, and it was at the lower end of the power charts, albeit not the lowest. My biggest advantage was time in the seat. Whereas everybody else favoured prepping the car to within an inch of its fiberglasd shell, i drove my car at every oppertunity, and really knew and understood it at the limit. Thats bound to be even more important in hillclimbing.

I would just get the car prepped, and get as much time in the seat as possible. You'll get more out of 1K worth of driver training or test/trackdays than you will out of a full aero package/lighter car/better suspension/best tyres.

Well if you got your finger out as I have said several times before..

I hope to be at one of the Kames test days before the season starts so if your available....

A Walshy day is effectivly a three day round trip for me.. and as a family man who works a shift rota , thats not really fair on them.

[mckeann]

As i said, i'm not an instructor, and i dont have a proper instructors license. Any advice i offer people on trackdays is just helpful tips and tricks etc.

If the schedules tie up, i'm happy to help out, but i would rather people went to walshy and got the full benefit of a properly qualified instructor. He has elise's for hire, so flying down and back, whilst using his car, is a less time consuming (but more expensive) option.

[fd]

i drove my car at every oppertunity, and really knew and understood it at the limit. Thats bound to be even more important in hillclimbing.

I would just get the car prepped, and get as much time in the seat as possible. You'll get more out of 1K worth of driver training or test/trackdays than you will out of a full aero package/lighter car/better suspension/best tyres.

Wise words Neil, seat time is vastly more valuable than at best questionable car mods or even valuable car mods . . . if you want to drive quickly on tracks where you will have effectively zero practice or opportunity to do so ever, your driving needs to be reflexive . . . and the only way to do that is to drive the car a lot in a stable configration . . .

I would say that tyres are the only thing I disagree with you on Neil, but as the restrictions are such that you have few options to worry about on an S1 Elise . . . and I think that has already been discussed . . .

Practical weight saving is worthwhile of course, aerodynamics will make zero difference on such a relatively slow and heavy car (and that applies to basically all road class cars), power gains are useful so long as you maintain drivability but only once you are spending lots of time at full throttle . . . and although that is easy on a nice big wide, fast track like KH, it's not so easy elsewhere . . .

Anyway . . . you have to learn for yourself . . . that's part of the fun eh ;-

Fd

[mac]

Another one to agree with Neil & Fd.

As a demonstration Fd in the same car is circa 5 or 6 seconds quicker per run than me at present - at Knockhill in our elises it may have been 5 or 6 tenths between us.

Fd spent a lot of time at Knockhill when he got the 7 learning the car, understanding what it does in different conditions and how it reacts to different inputs. Since getting my 7 I think I've been at Kh a handful of times.


2p


Mac

[alicrozier]

...and another

Learning is indeed part of the fun.
I only did one season in the Elise so lack some of the experience of FD etc but we've all had knowledge passed on to us. In that spirit here are some pointers and recommendations. I don't mean to tell you what to do, just stuff for you to think about and then figure out your own approach.


In hillclimbing you only get one go at corner (maybe 4-5 per event)...and the track condition will probably change each time! To get the same knowledge as a typical KH trackday could take you 10 or 20 years hence familiarity with the car up to and beyond the limit is vital if you want to be quick.

Get the susp and geo sorted first then spend as much time as possible at somewhere like KH (relatively wide and safe). Aim for one decent wet and one dry setup, I'd recommend progressive setups initially. If you make changes then more seat time....
Kames practice will help you to learn that specific track but are you comfortable pushing beyond the limits there?*





* not that I'd recommend pushing beyond the limits at a trackday...

[fd]

Kames is a great wee track and requires a certain set of skills to drive well, however and it does have real teeth if you make a mistake . . . I've seen the pictures of people having wee off's into the gravel on SE days there and I have to say that those kinds of incidents tend to be quite uncommon on competition days in my experience, mostly people don't outbrake themselves into the gravel, people do hit the scenery at Kames and sometimes hit it quite hard, I've seen two quite nasty accidents there in 2 years . . . and numerous others with minor car damage . . . and I'd have to say that's not far off the same rate as Doune claims if you ignore fiascos like the scottish minis last year who were out for a demolition derby . . .

I find Kames quite difficult and stressful to drive quickly, it's probably the most technically difficult venue, so much speed has to be gained from moving the car around outside what it's tyres can do it's inherently very risky . . . and that kind of driving in an Elise is much more challenging than in a Caterham . . .

I guess, in the same way Ali is suggesting, I'm saying be careful at Kames if you plan to use it as a driver development environment . . . I'd agree KH is better . . .

$0.02

Fd

[Andy G]

Some really good advice given above.

Totally with FD about Kames, although you clearly can build up your pace as your become more accustomed to the car, but as he says its very very tight, exactly why i was laughing about having the Ferrari on there when someone suggested it. I think the Ferrari is the same width as the track in places

Still, by and large, its only if you REALLY start to push it that you'll be risking it , depending how comfortable you are with sideways antics - but theres precious little run off, and for me thats part of the fun - agree with FD stress wise, and I havent competed there! The Atom was awesome round it but you had to be totally focused and on it, and I actually ended up putting JAmies S2 Sc Honda in the gravel when i couldn't readjust my line that easily with either brake or throttle(with regard to what FD was saying about adjusting your line outside of your tyres ability), to my embarrassment and everyone elses amusement.

Still to McKeans point, driver time is key, so get yourself up to everything you can. Thats what i did with the RLC, whether it was a KH night, day, teeside (teeslide may be more appropriate if you've seen the footage) FF etc.

Once you know the cars reaction instinctively you will move to being unconciously competent in the car (meaning your react, correct, balance, turn, manouvre instinctively), which is ultimately all that any driver can hope to achieve - oh, and f*cking fast besides

Now when is its first shakedown - and dont worry about it necessarily being finished yet, just get it out there and see where its at with its current set up - them you'll learn more about your new additions when they arrive.

PArt of the joy with the rlc was finding out what difference each change made as it came in from standard shed to race shed

[Dominic]

[Victor Meldrew]

One thing I have learned over the last three years is tires are the big thing, if the pressure is out then you dont stand a chance. When the tires are fitted/the links and suspension fitted/geo done/ corner weights done... then its time for some track time. Dont see much point spending money on track time to push a car I know reasonably well to go and change the geo and learn it again...

I think I am relativly comfortable with the car moving around under me on the tires beyond the optimum slip angle I was getting frustrated last year that I couldnt get more rear grip to carry the speed through the turns, this probably came from non-optimised tire pressures. As suggested by Andy before, I was way to high.

[Victor Meldrew]