HGF??? Urgent advice...

[pete]

OK. It had a service a couple of weeks ago and following the service the temperature gauge was under-reading - showing about 78 degrees and previously it had always sat at 84 - rock solid. Asked on the Yahoo group and was advised not to worry too much because it was within tolerances. I decided that as it is going back to the garage soon to get new brakes I'd wait until then before I did anything about it (and I've been dead busy and I'm lazy). It would seem this may have been a mistake.

Suzy has been driving it for the past week but I've brought it to work today and the temp is not climbing over 74 and occasionally is dipping to no temp showing. Stopped to have a look and it has used some water (down to min on the expansion tank) and there is, what I am loath to describe as mayonnaise but prefer to refer to as gunk on the inside of the oil filler cap. It is running fine though, heaters are still working I've not noticed any steam.

So I need advice, obviously it will go back to the garage Monday to see what they say but if it is HGF what am I looking at?
What do i need to do to fix it? (I know there are *better* gaskets available. Better bolts? Didn't I read about a fix somewhere?)
If the head has to come off can I find a silver lining? Are there any upgrades I should/can do whilst the head is off (that *don't* affect reliability)?

Any advice would be more than welcome.

'03 S2 111S. 25000 miles. Always warmed up properly. Not right.

[Lawrence]

Have a read at the FAQ that's why it's there

There are no better gaskets than the current Rover one
There are no better bolts than the OEM ones

Clean off the gunk and wait to see if it reappears before spending your dosh

regarding the gauge reading this may be a red herring, try switching the headlights and heater fan on and off and look for a change in the readings. If there is changes then run a temporary earth wire from the battery -ve to the ECU earth and see if this stabilises the readings.

Minimum on the expansion tank is correct for cold, when did you last check the level?

[simon]

Mine sits just below minimum cold and about half way between the marks when hot and it's always been like that.

[pete]

Tank was on minimum when hot. Last time I checked the level was about two weeks ago. (I know I should have checked it but I've been busy playing in the WRX and Suzy (wife) has been using it...).

I'm thinking (hoping) it is the thermostat sticking - having electrical stuff on isn't making a difference as far as I can tell, it's varying wildly so it's not like it's really possible to tell.

I'll check for oil in the water when I next get a break (at work at the moment).
At the moment my plan is to leave it in work until Monday then get the garage to check it, if it is the thermostat it'll need fixing anyway - if it is the HGF they'll be able to compression test it to be sure. Does that sound reasonable? Would a thermostat "stick". Would anytihng they would do during a service cause it?

Just panicking a bit to be honest, and I like to be as well informed as I can. I'm not very mechanical though...

Just read the FAQ - thanks for that...

[mac]

Pete,

You say that your wife has been driving the car recently.

What kind of journeys has she been doing? Short stop/start to shops and school type?

If so it could be that the engine isn't getting hot enough for long enough to drive out the moisture created during the combustion cycle. Basicly the same effect will happen if you have a stuck open thermostat.

The other thing that may have went wrong (although would require a huge co-incidence) is that both temp senders are reading cold.

As Lawrence says clean of the gunk, re-fill the water bottle to min level when cold and as a precaution I would also change the expansion bottle cap.

K series HGF failures normally make themselves know by venting the coolant on the exhaust side near to the alternator.

HTH


Mac

[simon]

K series HGF failures normally make themselves know by venting the coolant on the exhaust side near to the alternator.

IIRC that's what happened to Ali's as I remember being in someone else's car following him at KH and it looked like his brakes were smoking!

[pete]

Pete,

You say that your wife has been driving the car recently.

What kind of journeys has she been doing? Short stop/start to shops and school type?




Mac

Not exactly. Her run to work is about 20 minutes at 70, followed by a 5 minute bit flat out once she is clear of the speed cameras. (If I know my wife). Plus she drives it more than me anyway so there's not been any "change of use" - the only change has been the service...

There is no residue on the water but it does feel a bit oily, does the anti freeze make it feel oily? Definitely no smoke screeen though.

I'll leave it in work tonight and try and fiddle with it tomorrow evening - I can get a lift tonight and feel really uncomfortable drivign it if there is a risk of causing damage.

Pete

("Born to worry faction")

[alicrozier]

K series HGF failures normally make themselves know by venting the coolant on the exhaust side near to the alternator.

IIRC that's what happened to Ali's as I remember being in someone else's car following him at KH and it looked like his brakes were smoking!

Nah, mine was leaking exhaust gasses into the coolant hence venting from the expansion tank. Similar result though, looked like nearside brakes were on fire...

Cheers,
Ali

[mac]

I'm trying hard to remember but I don't think the oilways are close to the waterways on the K's in the head area.

I think most K HGF failures show themselves as presured failures



Mac

[simon]

K series HGF failures normally make themselves know by venting the coolant on the exhaust side near to the alternator.

IIRC that's what happened to Ali's as I remember being in someone else's car following him at KH and it looked like his brakes were smoking!

Nah, mine was leaking exhaust gasses into the coolant hence venting from the expansion tank. Similar result though, looked like nearside brakes were on fire...

Cheers,
Ali

IDRC then

[The_Rossatron]

The newer head gaskets come with metal dowels as apposed the old plastic ones for better fitting, reducing the risk of recurring HGF.

There was also chat on Seloc about Ford having made a 'fix' for it because of all the potential warranty claims on the Freelanders, some new bits available from them apparently.

[Stu160]

first thing to do is not panic.Dont rush it back to the garage and tell them you think you have a problem,they will agree with you ,do the job and charge you £700= for the pleasure.
Gunk could be the weather ,not uncommon,guage sounds like an electrical fault,of sensor.Give it some time,and keep an eye on it,see what happens.
As Lawrence said,ONLY use rover head gasket,and bolt,the rest can cause the problem you think you have.They did not spend millions on the head gasket for nothing.

Stu

[ewanrw]

I blew the head gasket on an MGF I had a couple of years ago. It overheated in the que for the Forth Road Bridge on a warm night, I waited till it cooled, put more water in and then blasted up to Aviemore. The car was fine for a couple of weeks and then the head gasket failed.

Had it fixed and 48k mile (timing belts etc) service done for £700.

Not a bad price I thought.

ewan

[pete]

first thing to do is not panic.Dont rush it back to the garage and tell them you think you have a problem,they will agree with you ,do the job and charge you £700= for the pleasure.
Gunk could be the weather ,not uncommon,guage sounds like an electrical fault,of sensor.Give it some time,and keep an eye on it,see what happens.
As Lawrence said,ONLY use rover head gasket,and bolt,the rest can cause the problem you think you have.They did not spend millions on the head gasket for nothing.

Stu

Exits stage left, panicing in a manner normally exhibited by Pike in the popular TV series Dad's Army.

It's not the gasket it's temp sender. And a dodgy thermostat. THANK YOU for all the, as always, invaluable advice.

Pete

(Who has a nasty tendency to presume the worst)

[Victor Meldrew]

first thing to do is not panic.Dont rush it back to the garage and tell them you think you have a problem,they will agree with you ,do the job and charge you £700= for the pleasure.
Gunk could be the weather ,not uncommon,guage sounds like an electrical fault,of sensor.Give it some time,and keep an eye on it,see what happens.
As Lawrence said,ONLY use rover head gasket,and bolt,the rest can cause the problem you think you have.They did not spend millions on the head gasket for nothing.

Stu

Exits stage left, panicing in a manner normally exhibited by Pike in the popular TV series Dad's Army.

It's not the gasket it's temp sender. And a dodgy thermostat. THANK YOU for all the, as always, invaluable advice.

Pete

(Who has a nasty tendency to presume the worst)

Ahhh... maybe not though.. keep your mobile phone charged and leave a warm jacket and a pair of gloves in the car. Trust me, it isnt funny freezing your curly bits of waiting for the AA man to come for you when it does go. Make sure you know the address of the garage that normally does your maint work. Oh, and check your towing eye is still in the car just in case.. If you have a car cover for it, put that in, it can sit for days outside unprotected if you put it to MMC.

Been there, wouldnt want anyone to suffer as much as I did.

Oh lord am I a miserable prophet of doom or what?.........