What's it like?

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Lawrence
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What's it like?

Post by Lawrence » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:21 pm

I was asked this question a few times over the weekend and so I gave it a huge amount of thought all the way home.

700 miles of the west coast in a Europa

With the weather and all the hillclimbing going on I hadn't seen ellopa for a few weeks. I suspect that most of you will know what happens next :)
That's right. It's a true Lotus ;) there was a complete lack of led on the dash. Flat bat in extremis. I connected the racers power pack to the battery and spun the motor over and it started immediately then put it on charge over night. We had all kinds of weather on the trip and the car with full fuel (only 36 litres), 2 full occupants and full boot is ever so heavy and solid at the back end. When the fuel is gone the balance is much nicer but at 200 miles to the tank at the last check I seldom put in only half a tank. When it was dry the steering loads up really well and lets you feel the grip but there's always more at the back. In the rain and the really bad standing water the car is rock solid but again understeer can be found but only when you go looking for it otherwise it's just fast wet or dry. At 100 tuts it's underdamped all the rest of the time it's very smooth and relatively quiet. The engine is strange, I spent ages yesterday trying to figure it out and missed more than a good few passing opportunities in doing so. I wondered if I'm still capable of driving full on for more than a grand prix distance these days. It's the 40 crowd that do my head in, 40 in the 30, 40 in the 40, 40 in the NSL and all bunched together. What is the current technique for this style of making progress, I always used to look through their windows and under their cars to see ahead but now even the Honda Jazz and the Renault Clio brigade have skirted bumpers and huge curved rear screens that prevent forward vision. Anyhoo this engine, it's a turbo 2.0 200 geegees, but the geegees as always are up the top. 4th and 5th are great gears, 6th is overdrive and 100 tuts are there in all bar the 1st three.In the NSL, in 4th the car has the turbo spinning and 3.5k will see it go past most traffic wit ease, 4.5k and there's a nice ramp up to the full stampede and when you lift off it just keeps going, I use the brakes on this car more than I usually do and that's not relaxing for me. The brakes are good tho' and I haven't triggered the abs yet :) (other than proving it works) So the engine is fine at 60, but at 40 it's dead unless I'm in 3rd on even better probably 2nd with boost on. Otherwise when a small gap appears, I press throttle but nothing seems to happen, turbo spins up and reasonable power available to pass, hit 4.5k and brake very hard to slow down to prevent running in the back of someone. By the end of the day I was getting there but it's like having 2 powerbands and with that extra weight to accelerate, it just dampens my progress, I only had the flashing lights and the toot toot once tho', and one tuttut from the pax seat. I think I still need a wee bit more experience in all types of conditions to get the best from it then. Very big thanks to both Stu and FD for showing me the lines up the west coast and keeping me honest :) One or two stone chips at last, and I'm getting more and more at home with it. Roll on the next one.

Oh! and in answer to the question it's a great car, that can make huge progress in relative comfort and quiet and especially on an empty road ;) But it's not a nutters car :) A better weather forecast and you may have been reading a different car report

It sounds better too if I leave the drivers door on the first catch ;) but that's possibly why the interior light could have flattened the battery ;)

ps I've never seen one on the road either :)

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Scotty C
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Post by Scotty C » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:30 pm

:thumbsup

Im sure you'll be fine on FF :lol:
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Re: What's it like?

Post by campbell » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:31 pm

Lawrence wrote: ps I've never seen one on the road either :)
aye, they're all going just as quick as you ;-)

I think it's a perfect car for you Lawrence in your tender years!

Wonder what keeps it going after lift-off, do you think the wastegate or whatever dumps the boost pressure is a bit lazy?

Maybe it's just got more momentum cos its heavier?

Campbell
(non-technical clutching-at-straws faction)

PS - beautiful review. Ta for reminding some of us what it is like to drive a Lotus. I just check that mine's still in the garage periodically...usually on the way to the beer fridge or nappy bin.
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ed
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Post by ed » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:35 pm

Another quality write up! :thumbsup
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robin
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Post by robin » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:44 pm

Campbell, I drove it gently for a wee while and know what Lawrence is talking about - it's related to the turbo but I suspect it's accentuated by the increase in mass and total lack of engine braking.

Not as bad as Ross' old nutter scooby that had me overtake two cars by mistake ...

Cheers,
Robin
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mac
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Post by mac » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:00 pm

There was more than one occasion when I wished I was in that car - and it had nothing to do with the rain.

It just looks like a GT car.

I think I could quite happily drive around the Med in the europa.


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Lawrence
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Post by Lawrence » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:52 pm

NOOPS 160 wrote:I was looking at it parked in the long grass amongst the rest of the plastic on Saturday night , and it looked rather 8)an informative write up Lawrence and by the way what cracking form you were in the other night :lol: :wink:
were you sober Neil?

I kept thinking you'd gone quiet ;)

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Post by steve_weegie » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:36 pm

Definatly a cracking car lawrence! Nice to meet you and the rest of the crew at the weekend too. Great fun & am looking forward to another run soon i hope!

Cheers,

Steve (your friendly undercover policeman :wink: )
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Post by mac » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:42 pm

steve_weegie wrote:Definatly a cracking car lawrence! Nice to meet you and the rest of the crew at the weekend too. Great fun & am looking forward to another run soon i hope!

Cheers,

Steve (your friendly undercover policeman :wink: )
Has Stu been at it again?

:D


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Post by fd » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:02 pm

steve_weegie wrote:Steve (your friendly undercover policeman :wink: )
Oh jeez . . . ok for the record my speedo misreads . . . so any number I quote are hypothetical and in no way resemble fact . . . well . . . apart from sprint/hillclimb times, bhp figures and that sort of thing . . . which we all know are probably pretty accurate ;-) . . .

Ref the turbo run-on . . . my sentiently engine managed diseasel does this too . . . but I only notice it because of the elise which is razor sharp in throttle position vs engine output . . . I assumed all turbos did it to some extent even petrols . . . perhaps it's the same thing but as you come off the throttle (slowly ish), instead of the power reducing exactly as the reduction in throttle . . . the engine produces more power than you would expect . . . I know the diseasel is very different (no throttle, no wastegate - HAL controlling things) but on the petrol the wastegate will only trigger when there is sufficient overpressure on the outside of the throttle plate, so up until that point it will still be pressuring more than you may expect . . . perhaps . . .

Anyway . . . I wondered how many pax-tut-tuts you had got, and wondered if you were trying to minimise them ;-)

The run back from Ullapool to kinlochewe was brilliant, perhaps one of my fave bits of road anywhere, sorry I booted it into the single track, I know the road and couldn't face 15 miles at 30 mph . . . once past the locals I had a clear run al the way to the end of Glen Garry where something small and green caught me up . . . we 'made progress' to Ft Bill, fuelled up then decided we may as well just press on, passed the westy and MK at Crianlarich after seeing them in Ft Bill, and had a great run down the side of Loch Lubnaig (?) after Strathyre . . .

Interestingly I never got flashed once by the public all weekend (that I saw) . . . obvioulsy 'cos I'm kind and gentle and considerate and completely within all applicable laws, rules and regulations at all times . . . and my advanced driving training makes me seem to go much slower than I actually do ;-)

Great run, good to see you enjoying yourself under the gazebo too ;-)

I wonder if there is an opportunity to gazebo over the lossie weekend . . .

Fd

PS after all that law abiding behaviour at the weekend I may have been caught by the tax collectors tonight near the Kincardine bridge . . . usual deal, scamera van on a bridge over the roadworks . . . I think I was doing an almost murderous 50 in a 40 (I had probably mown down a good coulple of hundred pensioners and kids at this point, was out of my face on crack and pished as a fart) . . . anyway I'll ask for the cal certificatem delay as much as possible to increase their costs then send them a cheque in a box of rotten fish . . . still . . . after the weekend . . . small beer . . .
Last edited by fd on Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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campbell
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Post by campbell » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:04 pm

robin wrote:Campbell, I drove it gently for a wee while and know what Lawrence is talking about - it's related to the turbo but I suspect it's accentuated by the increase in mass and total lack of engine braking.

Not as bad as Ross' old nutter scooby that had me overtake two cars by mistake ...

Cheers,
Robin
LOL.

Aye, you can't beat a diesel or a piddly wee 1.8K for engine braking ;-)

And as for Ross' Scooby, he drove us home from Edinburgh in it one night and we got a unique combo of whiplash and deafness from its performance and dump valve partnership - "brrrrrp-ttsssshhhhh" :shock:
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campbell
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Post by campbell » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:07 pm

fd wrote: . . . and my advanced driving training makes me seem to go much slower than I actually do ;-)
No, young Jedi, that is The Force revealing its true strength to those who use it wisely.
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Post by steve_weegie » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:16 am

fd wrote:
steve_weegie wrote:Steve (your friendly undercover policeman :wink: )
Oh jeez . . . ok for the record my speedo misreads . . . so any number I quote are hypothetical and in no way resemble fact . . . well . . . apart from sprint/hillclimb times, bhp figures and that sort of thing . . . which we all know are probably pretty accurate ;-) . . .

Ref the turbo run-on . . . my sentiently engine managed diseasel does this too . . . but I only notice it because of the elise which is razor sharp in throttle position vs engine output . . . I assumed all turbos did it to some extent even petrols . . . perhaps it's the same thing but as you come off the throttle (slowly ish), instead of the power reducing exactly as the reduction in throttle . . . the engine produces more power than you would expect . . . I know the diseasel is very different (no throttle, no wastegate - HAL controlling things) but on the petrol the wastegate will only trigger when there is sufficient overpressure on the outside of the throttle plate, so up until that point it will still be pressuring more than you may expect . . . perhaps . . .

Anyway . . . I wondered how many pax-tut-tuts you had got, and wondered if you were trying to minimise them ;-)

The run back from Ullapool to kinlochewe was brilliant, perhaps one of my fave bits of road anywhere, sorry I booted it into the single track, I know the road and couldn't face 15 miles at 30 mph . . . once past the locals I had a clear run al the way to the end of Glen Garry where something small and green caught me up . . . we 'made progress' to Ft Bill, fuelled up then decided we may as well just press on, passed the westy and MK at Crianlarich after seeing them in Ft Bill, and had a great run down the side of Loch Lubnaig (?) after Strathyre . . .

Interestingly I never got flashed once by the public all weekend (that I saw) . . . obvioulsy 'cos I'm kind and gentle and considerate and completely within all applicable laws, rules and regulations at all times . . . and my advanced driving training makes me seem to go much slower than I actually do ;-)

Great run, good to see you enjoying yourself under the gazebo too ;-)

I wonder if there is an opportunity to gazebo over the lossie weekend . . .

Fd

PS after all that law abiding behaviour at the weekend I may have been caught by the tax collectors tonight near the Kincardine bridge . . . usual deal, scamera van on a bridge over the roadworks . . . I think I was doing an almost murderous 50 in a 40 (I had probably mown down a good coulple of hundred pensioners and kids at this point, was out of my face on crack and pished as a fart) . . . anyway I'll ask for the cal certificatem delay as much as possible to increase their costs then send them a cheque in a box of rotten fish . . . still . . . after the weekend . . . small beer . . .
LOL, i think after my run back to kilmahog with the caterham boys i'll have dismissed ANY suspicions :lol:

I had a sublime run back after the weather turned after ullapool & we all stopped for the biggest breakfast you can imagine at loch carron. It came on a plate that doubled as a tray!!!

Image

Myself and the caterham guys that had windscreens & hoods took the hoods off & paul who had neither looked a lot happier in the sunshine! The run from there all the way back to fort william was "spirited" to say the least & not one i'll forget in a while. 8)

re: the turbo run on, if the dump valve is not bleeding enough air back to the low pressure side of the airbox as you close the throttle, you'll get these symptoms. High pressure air will still be seeping through the closed butterfly and cause these unpleasant effects. Dont know the europa turbo engine well enough to comment too much further, but fitting a recirculating dump valve with an adjustable spring rate might help.

Cheers,

Steve
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Lawrence
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Post by Lawrence » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:31 am

steve_weegie wrote:
re: the turbo run on, if the dump valve is not bleeding enough air back to the low pressure side of the airbox as you close the throttle, you'll get these symptoms. High pressure air will still be seeping through the closed butterfly and cause these unpleasant effects. Dont know the europa turbo engine well enough to comment too much further, but fitting a recirculating dump valve with an adjustable spring rate might help.

Cheers,

Steve
It's not so much a problem more an unknown feature of the engine. I much prefer it to the 111R engine as it still only runs to 6.5k. As per usual once a feature has been logged and studied the driver can drive round it. It's far better than the VX version too. However I think the ecu is cutting boost on constant throttle and so I may need a technique to fire up the turbo quicker from this position. Probably best tried without the pax around. ;)

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Post by campbell » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:01 am

The old trick with the Scoobies was to left-foot-brake a little, giving the engine something to strain against and hence bringing on-boost...then side-step the brake to make the overtaking manoeuvre.

Tried this with the Golf though, and the ESP just cuts the engine when it detects brake being pressed so doesn't work on that :-(
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