Honda Elise -Not again I hear you cry

tenkfeet · Post by **tenkfeet** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:41 am

This subject has been done to death I know but I am having a bit of a dilema.

I see from seloc http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=105132 that Eliseparts are now producing the Link up Honda Elise kit and have started up a site . Jude performance is only just down the road .

So the subject of putting a Honda in my Elise has come up again and I am seriously tempted but I am trying to convince why I should not do it . Seriously like to know you guys detatched rational opinions .

My ability driving a K series Elise is not that great and I have massive room for improvement but I would seriously like the extra overtaking power . I had a Civic type R and the engine and Gearbox were amazing and I seriously miss it

Questions I am asking myself .
1. Its a lots of cash and I need a new kitchen

2. Should I spend the money on driver training and track days instead ?
3. How much is a 12k miles K series engine and gearbox worth ?
4. Insurance will be more.
5. Does it make much difference in the twistys?
6. Am I reponsible enough ?

Has anybody had a reliable conversion done and regretted it ?

Stu160 · Post by **Stu160** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:08 am

I would go for option 2,if you get more power,and cant use it properly,(no disrespect) it could make you slower?
You already have 150+bhp with the VVC ,in the dry ,I would say the car could do 63 sec laps at KH(or less,not that you would time your laps on a track day,as it is against the rules

),if you are way off that ,more power is the last thing you need.

Just my opinion,go for the kitchen.

Stu

tenkfeet · Post by **tenkfeet** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:23 am

Stu160 wrote:I would go for option 2,if you get more power,and cant use it properly,(no disrespect) it could make you slower?
You already have 150+bhp with the VVC ,in the dry ,I would say the car could do 63 sec laps at KH(or less,not that you would time your laps on a track day,as it is against the rules ),if you are way off that ,more power is the last thing you need.

Just my opinion,go for the kitchen.

Stu

I had not thought about it making me slower, valid point . I have never timed myself on track , laps are very inconsistent and thats when I stay on the black stuff

I cannot get excited about a kitchen . It would add value to my house I suppose which would pay for the new engine

robin · Post by **robin** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:05 am

Your engine and gearbox would be worth no more than 750 IMHO. The S2 VVC has the funny gearing, but the engine is a nice 150-odd BHP, so I think as a low miler it will sell for around that, maybe a wee bit more.

Your power to weight ratio wouldn't go up by *that* much over the VVC - nothing that will make much of a difference when overtaking traffic (put another way, the overtakes that you could complete with the Honda but not with the VVC are probably too borderline to be safe anyway).

If your goal is to enjoy the car more, spend some time and money on improving yourself as a driver - there is so much to be gotten from these cars - I also agree with Stu that it could make you slower.

Finally, I think the Honda doesn't sit well in an S2 with standard front wheels - you will understeer out of every corner unless you are very good at throttle control

2p

Robin

mac · Post by **mac** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:08 am

Bearing in mind I've driven with you I think that if you upgrade the elise to honda power at the moment the next thing you'll be in will be powered by ford and have a lovely, long, mahogany parcel shelf

Get some driving training first

Mac

roadboy · Post by **roadboy** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:57 am

robin wrote:Your power to weight ratio wouldn't go up by *that* much over the VVC - nothing that will make much of a difference when overtaking traffic

Have you driven one Robin? I used to think like that until I actually converted my car.

Anyone is welcome to come down and have a test drive. I am pretty sure you'll change your mind.

I don't think the Honda would actually make anyone slower as the power delivery is so linear.

/2p

Dan@JPS

Post by ed » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:12 am

Stu160 wrote:I would go for option 2,if you get more power,and cant use it properly,(no disrespect) it could make you slower?
You already have 150+bhp with the VVC ,in the dry ,I would say the car could do 63 sec laps at KH(or less,not that you would time your laps on a track day,as it is against the rules ),if you are way off that ,more power is the last thing you need.

Just my opinion,go for the kitchen.

Stu

What he said! I believe there is very little difference between a honda car and vvc through the twisties if drivers are of similar standard. If i were you i would maybe upgrade the suspension, wheels & tyres and get some training and more trackdays in. Then when you have got the most out of it you could then think about Honda!

All imho! cheers Ed

jj · Post by jj » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:21 am

I can design+sell you a top-spec kitchen that will make you cook faster.

Post by ed » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:21 am

roadboy wrote: Anyone is welcome to come down and have a test drive. I am pretty sure you'll change your mind.

Dan@JPS

I might take you up on that!

ps fancy bringing her up to KH for some demo laps?!

Post by ed » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:03 am

Just had a look at the new site. http://www.hondaelise.com. Looks good!

Anyone any ideas why the link-up kit is £1k more than the sincs kit and how can they claim more power and torque with stock engines?!

I thought they were all the same?!

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:10 am

IIRC there are different stock engines, JDM (Jap Domestic Market) engines are more powerful standard.

May be talking utter sh*t though...

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:24 am

JDM's are more powerful.
My opinion doesn't usually mean much but....

If you want a Honda...get one.
Do whatever makes you happy.
If you think by putting in a Honda will make you faster on track....unless it's on a straight...you wont be any quicker until your driving improves (You only have to look at McKeann.....

).

Infact, if you want to go quicker...look at what Simon A has done.
Improved brakes, suspension, fitted OZ's and 48s and he's dramatically got quicker.

Post by **Shug** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:25 am

RICHARDHUMBLE wrote:IIRC there are different stock engines, JDM (Jap Domestic Market) engines are more powerful standard.

May be talking utter sh*t though...

I think it's more to do with Scuffham's ECU and exhaust tuning. Both kits use EU engines as standard AFAIK.

I'm not saying that Sincs haven't done as well with that, I'm not privvy to the tests - maybe link-up's kits are better at releasing the power, maybe sincs claim more realistic figures. Either or, from what I've seen, they are both well-engineered kits.

Post by **Shug** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:27 am

Gareth wrote: If you want a Honda...get one.
Do whatever makes you happy.
If you think by putting in a Honda will make you faster on track....unless it's on a straight...you wont be any quicker until your driving improves (You only have to look at McKeann..... ).

See, now I'm worried - I agree here. If you wanna go fater on track, then get training. If you want a honda for it's own sake, go for it.

Post by **Shug** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:28 am

robin wrote: Your power to weight ratio wouldn't go up by *that* much over the VVC

Twoo - but the gear ratios (and extra cog) would make it a different league of quick. Steve Butts posted up a series of cascade curves somewhere showing the way that the Honda uses the ratio to keep in the meat of the torque curve everywhere.