Scottish Elises

Thought provoking article :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35242514

Views?

Not that surprising given the ever increasing cost of motoring. Young people just can't afford the maintenance and up keep never mind insurance. With ever improving public transport if I stayed in town I doubt we would have a day to day car as it would probably be cheaper and easier to use taxi's. £15 each way, 5 days a week to get to and from work £600 a month, you can hardly buy, fuel, maintain, park and tax a £20k car for that. When Ruth worked in Aberdeen town centre we priced annual parking tickets for the multi stories in town and back then it was over £2500 a year so I can see the sense in not having a car if you don't need one.
Petrolhead are a dyeing breed, there are also many more distraction these days and less kudos in owning your own car. For me it was bikes then cars as soon as you could afford your first one, that was the thing an achievement if you like some sort of milestone in your life as a teenager/young adult. Now mate not so much, that and getting on the property ladder is also far harder with the price of houses and flats now so that obviously will change priorities for many.

The people I work with in London, may earn enough to buy whatever they want, but they only drive at the weekend on gridlocked roads. So on a statistical basis I can understand the limited mileage and lack of interest. There focus is on finding a home in an area they ca afore with an acceptable commute. We live in a relative bubble up North, lucky us.

Interesting comment on thought that budget airlines prevented the channel tunnel volume ever reaching target figures. I'm not sure how true that is, it may be one element along with cheaper ferries, a preference for people to have a driving break on a ferry or the overall cost of driving vs flying.

Driving in the SE is just rubbish. No pleasure at all.

I wondered how long before constant targeting of the motorist would take to cause this.

We can't even park at the supermarket for 2hr 1 min without someone trying to fleece us FFS.

And I spent more of last week in traffic queues than I care to remember.

But I agree. Here "up north" we still have opportunities. Once out of civilisation at least...

Real "UP NORTH" is the place to be though, all around here are free car parks, on street parking, loads of B roads with no traffic, even the A95 and A96 are fine locally, Dufftown road runs from Keith, full Scottish breakfast £4.

Still able to go down the track then go for a blast on back roads that are even better than Old Deer. Stay sensible on the A roads and there is nothing to worry about on the others. Mind you it is easy for me to say from the point of view of retirement, not so suitable if you work in Aberdeen or Central Belt.

tut

ps:- however Keith railway station is two miles from us with free parking, if Clare does have to come back then she could commute to a job in Aberdeen or Inverness far better than by car. One hour journey, book five days ahead for the next week, Aberdeen - Inverness £5, get off at Keith.

Mrs donkey didn't get her license until she was 27. She moved to glasgow when she was 18 and there simply wasn't a need for her to have a car. If you look at her pals it's pretty common with people only passing if their job requires it. Why spend a grand on lessons when you could just get taxis and public transport? I basically bullied her into having a car when we met lol

When I grew up in Inverness it was different. You needed a car to get about, I'm guessing a lot of Aberdeen is the same.

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Interesting, I've read a few simmilar articles recently.
The whole cost of driving is very subjective and varyies heavily per individual. Lessons are nowhere near £1000, or they shouldn't be, I recall a block of 10 lessons was £250(That was coming up for 5 years ago) £30 for the theory and £60 odd for the practical, so all in even on part time wages it was relatively affordable. I recall having to wait 2 and a bit weeks for my theory and almost 3 months from then for my practical, aside the cost of insurance this was the largest "inconvenience". The insurance was the biggest killer, it was about £2800 for the year but it fell pretty quickly, my second year was "only" £1200 for year 2 then fell again to £700(and on a more powerful/expensive car) for year 3. I think it was then about £450 for year 4. Year 5 I picked up a bucket of points and my insurance on the same car was around £350-400 which by all accounts i felt was fair, next years renewal is due next week so will see what that brings, if it's around the same I'll be happy.

Looking back you could effectively separate people into three categories, those who wanted/needed to drive, those who's parents were putting them forward to drive and those who had no/limited interest or no need.
Generally speaking here of course those who had no interest or weren't driving or actively undergoing lessons before they left school have not pursued it further and rely on public transport or lift sharing and very few have become motorists in the 4.5 years since leaving school, I suspect some of these whom have left university recently will soon begin to drive, but we will see. I'd say this figure accounted for about 50% of the year. Those who's parents seemed to be pushing them or encouraging them more to drive largely seemed to take slightly longer to pass also these people typically shared A car with a parent, making motoring more accessible. I'd say this accounted for 30% of the year. Then those who wanted or needed to drive were more self motivated and largely had their own cars and I'd say this made up 20% of the year.
That's just me generalising and my point of view of things. Public transport is a big lure, it's widely avalable and it's easier, if I worked in city centre Aberdeen I'd most likely take the train, ulseess I could get a schedule which meant I missed the traffic. I wouldn't touch the bus with a barge pole as I don't think it's worth it but I know many people who do use it and rely on it, although those in the 20% that wanted to drive do seem less likely to use public transport even if it does come across as more convenient to take the train/bus. It is a shame that people aren't driving as much now especially when you consider the quality of the roads and scenery to be had within a 2 hr drive of any big city.

My personal experience as a parent reflects this; neither of my kids drives yet because they've always lived in a city and have no real need to do so and Edinburgh in particular is so car hostile that a car would be a liability (where to park it for starters!). The eldest is just about to take his test as he has started to work and inevitably where he can afford to live is not going to be where he will end up working so he wants the flexibility. That said, with his current plans he still wouldn't need or want a car I think, but who knows what the future holds!

I think the cost thing is a pretty simple sum - as a car for leisure purposes it's pretty hard to justify spending 2-3K in your first year of driving - as a car to commute to work it's a pretty simple sum to work out whether or not it's worthwhile - it easily could be if your other option were to get the train at £20/day (£20/day x 250 = £5K) - the car would then win on cost (probably even allowing for other costs of ownership assuming it's a worthless banger) and comes with benefits (leisure use is effectively free at that point).

The fewer people driving the better IMHO! London - OMG - spent xmas down there and were in a traffic jam on christmas morning at 10:00 - god knows what it's like during the working week.

Cheers,
Robin

Interestingly my daughter couldn't wait to start driving and had he first lesson the day after her birthday. We live in the sticks so being mobile will give the kids a bit more freedom and give me some time back. However Rachel has yet to work out the real cost of running a car...the deal we have is I'll buy her a car and insure it, she funds running it but she also becomes Ben's personal driver.

Brussels is awful for traffic as well. Belgium is the land of waffles, beer, and company cars. I've given up with hire cars and taxis and just use public transport now that I've figured out railway and bus routes.

Both my kids are keen to learn - Little miss Bee had her first lesson on her 17th birthday last Sept (I had taken her out beforehand [on private roads orificer ] to learn basic moving off / stopping / clutch control) and got a 10 hour block for £200 from Grandparents.

She managed to just fail her theory last Tuesday (passed hazard perception, 3 marks adrift on multi-choice), much to her frustration, has her resit in a fortnight.

I suppose it's ultimately down to where you live and public transport infrastructure - While in London, I owned a £250 Peugeot 205 which I used once or twice a month for trips to Ikea / supermarket runs etc.

The rest of time it sat on the street, with its battery disconnected - If truth be told, I didn't really need it, as I was a member of Hertz on Demand, and could use the VW Golf parked a couple of streets away for a few quid an hour if I wanted to. The tube / overground / bus got me where I needed to be 99% of the time for minimal hassle and reasonable outlay.

Living in Ireland, things are rather different - Once North of central Dublin, the infrastructure is more akin to Scotland's 20 years ago - Last bus on a Sunday = 8pm etc.

A car becomes much more of a necessity under the circumstances above.

In terms of fun driving, I can't remember the last time I took a drive just for entertainment purposes. I bought my 33 year old Citroen for some scenic bimbling, but even if you're maintaining the NSL, there's always someone sat about 2mm off your ar*e, equating old banger = slow car and must tailgate to show them that they're holding me up

I guess that ties in with Mike's point about petrolheads being a dying breed - Most people drive out of necessity rather than enjoyment these days, and usually found to be running late for wherever they need to be

As for the "yoof of today" - How much have things changed from 1994, and "It gets you out of the house..."?

Watch on YouTube

(Part of cult photographer Martin Parr's boring to most, but interesting to me 1993 / 1994 TV series examining the UK's relationship with their cars - From A -> B: Tales of Modern Motoring).

I was surprised by how uninterested Gordon was in learning at first. Despite encouragement, it took him a year to get organised with lessons, and another year to complete it. Karen, on the other hand was keen and did it as quick as she could. I think £1000 is easily what it cost for each of them, lessons, test, and increased premium on my wife's car. I doubt they would have managed without a lot of support, both financial, and time spent practicing with me. That initial hiatus was short lived and Gordon is now driving 200 miles a day as a professional driver, and Karen is never out of the car.

But there's more to this; among their friends, there are very few who drive. My own view is that the days of buying an old banger and tearing about the place have gone. Society was ready to turn a blind eye at one time, but not now. The consequences of not following the rules are brutal and abiding by them is beyond most what youngsters want to pay. What this is really showing is the reduction in numbers of old cars on the road.

If they are anything like my kids and their friends, they would not be seen dead in an old banger. The boys progressions were Focuses, Audi TT, Honda Elise, Audi TTS, Nissan 370GT.

Clare's went Ford Ka, MGF, new Nissan 370GT convertible.

tut

Our own prodigy are probably bad examples of what kids in general are doing I would expect their parents enthusiasm will have rubbed off. Apprentices at work seem 50/50 on learning to drive and if I lived and worked in a city I probably wouldn't have a car.