Scottish Elises

<controversial>

Because we haven't done controversial fo a while.

Should we take migrants? How many?

</controversial>

Migrants or refugees?

alicrozier wrote:Migrants or refugees?

Bugger. Failed at first hurdle, it's a difficult question to phrase. A migrant is defined as someone who moves to find better living conditions, I think to move away from war is a better living condition. A refugee is someone who flees away from war, I'd argue that they were still migrants?
ie a refugee is a migrant but a migrant isn't always a refugee.
This is why I don't work for the electoral commission.

Migrant means move from one place to another so technically they are all migrants. Regardless of wither they are moving to find work or fleeing a war torn area.

I don't know enough about the situation in Syria or the mechanics of asylum processes to really comment but I did read that the situation hasn't really changed much and numbers seeking asylum havent increased much and the images and stories in the press right now are because the media has started covering the situation rather than it being a 'new' situation.

In the scheme of things, the numbers are not that great and one day, as our own population ages, we may welcome a younger influx of keen migrant workers that know how bad things can be. Put your prejudices aside and welcome them as a resource.

j2 lot wrote:I don't know enough about the situation in Syria or the mechanics of asylum processes to really comment

Ye gods don't let that stop you! I NEVER do.

David wrote:In the scheme of things, the numbers are not that great and one day, as our own population ages, we may welcome a younger influx of keen migrant workers that know how bad things can be. Put your prejudices aside and welcome them as a resource.

Good point.

David wrote:In the scheme of things, the numbers are not that great and one day, as our own population ages, we may welcome a younger influx of keen migrant workers that know how bad things can be. Put your prejudices aside and welcome them as a resource.

That's my thinking too. More working younger taxpayers to pay our pensions.

Historically migrants have improved our society and contributed so why not.

BigD wrote:

David wrote:Historically migrants have improved our society and contributed so why not.

Its not quite that simple an issue though, the one thing that concerns me and its based on known local facts and not heresay is the amount of criminally motivated individuals that are coming here from Country's which have completely different values and mindset from the majority of people who are UK born, combined with the fact that our Police forces are also dwindling, the thought of groups of migrants, the vast majority of which are young males, (where are all the women?) wandering around checking out everything genuinely makes me fearful and fills me with anxiety, and many other people in my neihbourhood are feeling exactly the same way.

There is no way on Earth that the thousands that are coming here are going to be vetted or checked in any way, therefore we could be letting in people who have committed appalling crimes overseas, by all means help people in need but i truly believe there has to be some form of checks made and not just be a free for all.

Another train of thought that is circulating is that the Migrants are infiltrated by ISIS extremists who will slip into the UK undetected, whether thats the case or not i have no idea, it certainly would not surprise me if it was going by the vile and henious acts they have perpetrated, poor Alan Henning being just one example, but the Crime aspect mentioned above is very real.

I don't know where you would start to vet them. I agree it makes sense to ask people what their background is and where they hope to live, work, etc., but in the end you're going to have to decide whether it makes more sense to allow people to settle here, risking that some are criminals or terrorists, vs trying to keep them out and live with the consequences. I think that the motivated terrorist has plenty of opportunity to attack us; they almost certainly don't need to trudge across Europe to get here.

Cheers,
Robin

The fact that some commit crimes here is more a sad reflection on the current police service here than them being bad people or criminals.

If our police were policing the streets would there not be less crime?

This is not the fault of the individual officers either more the way it is run.

BiggestNizzy wrote:Migrant means move from one place to another so technically they are all migrants. Regardless of wither they are moving to find work or fleeing a war torn area.

But different questions will produce different answers...

The easier you make it for economic migrants the more will come until it's no longer advantageous (vs their country of origin).

I don't blame the individuals in search of a better life.

It's a sad situation and a very complex one and I really do feel for the genuine people seeking out safety and a better life but just saying come on in all welcome is not the way to go about it in my opinion.
I would welcome a Migrant workforce that come to live and work here doing it properly and in the system thus contributing to our society. Unfortunately that only appears to be a small minority of them with lots choosing to work outside the system.
Not sure how difficult it would be or how much it would cost but setting them up with ID cards so at least there is some form of record as to how many are entering and also putting them on the system.

One idea would be to allocate a ferry/ship that runs down to the med and back directly with personnel on board to register the individuals and issue them with the ID cards prior to arriving in the country.
The current methods of loading people onto boats then sinking them in the middle of the med so that the European authorities (or passing ships) have to rescue them has to stop.. Just my 2p worth

The thing is, the people are coming, regardless of whether or not we think it's a good idea.

Britain can probably use its island status to help keep people out for a while, but they will arrive in mainland Europe and as was demonstrated by those trapped in Hungary, they will walk if they have to. So unless you're going to call out the army and start shooting people (which is the very thing they are fleeing from) then they will arrive and the only choice Europe has is whether to accept and integrate them as best as is possible, or bury our heads in the sand and create an illegal under-class that realistically will have to turn to benefits and/or some from of illegal activity to feed themselves (where do you work when you have no work permit?).

I totally agree that collecting refugees closer to the source makes sense - it will encourage other refugees to stay put and wait to be collected rather than making the journey across the med and pay the smugglers for the privilege.

Cheers,
Robin