Scottish Elises

Looks like Nico Hulkenberg is the choice to go to Lotus after Quantum finance deal is signed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111129

Good for him, he derseves a more competitive car beneath him

With the team's money problems this year, you have to wonder whether their car will be all that competitive next year.

Still, chances are it will be more competitive than the Sauber.

What would be brilliant fun for next year is if a team like caterham had randomly stumbled across the magic formula and were fastest on the grid (a bit like Braun a few years back).

Cheers,
Robin

[EDIT: that's not meant to belittle Braun or Caterham's efforts, just that with the spending wars as they are, random chance is Caterham's best chance!]

robin wrote:With the team's money problems this year, you have to wonder whether their car will be all that competitive next year.

Still, chances are it will be more competitive than the Sauber.

What would be brilliant fun for next year is if a team like caterham had randomly stumbled across the magic formula and were fastest on the grid (a bit like Braun a few years back).

Cheers,
Robin

[EDIT: that's not meant to belittle Braun or Caterham's efforts, just that with the spending wars as they are, random chance is Caterham's best chance!]

Yup, I think Lotus may struggle next year as a result of lack of funds this year for development of the 2014 car. Not sure Brawn stumbled on a magic formula though - was it not more the result of a massive development budget from Honda? Honda were daft or spectacularly unlucky in leaving F1 just as all that investment was about to come good. Unfortunately these days miracles in F1 car development never happen - big money isn't a guarantee of success but it does seem to be a prerequisite.

Mark

Biggest miracle is that Red Bull have not been caught cheeting yet !!! Lol.

Stu

ryallm wrote: Not sure Brawn stumbled on a magic formula though - was it not more the result of a massive development budget from Honda?
Mark

I think the diffuser was the magic sauce that made the car dominant - by mid season everyone had copied it and the car was middling. Whether it was random or the result of applied budget, it was just one thing. I agree random chance is not a big chance and is certainly no substitute for spending money!

Cheers,
Robin

Stu160 wrote:Biggest miracle is that Red Bull have not been caught cheeting yet !!! Lol.

Stu

The FIA technical bods must know what is different between the RB and the closest rivals. What is amazing to me is that that information has not found its way to the red team.

The flip side is that maybe there is no one thing and it's 1000 things each optimized and thus hard to copy?

Cheers
Robin

robin wrote:

ryallm wrote: Not sure Brawn stumbled on a magic formula though - was it not more the result of a massive development budget from Honda?
Mark

I think the diffuser was the magic sauce that made the car dominant - by mid season everyone had copied it and the car was middling. Whether it was random or the result of applied budget, it was just one thing. I agree random chance is not a big chance and is certainly no substitute for spending money!

Cheers,
Robin

Williams and Toyota also had double diffuser at start of season (the latter team also having vast budget)... Which proved there was more to it than just bolting on a DD. Always intrigued me that coincidental discovery of same loophole.

Brawn/Honda spent a vast budget through 2008 exclusively developing what was to be branded the Brawn. Another part of the magic formula was bolting on the merc engine, which showed to the team how underpowered and heavy a dog the Honda mill had become.

robin wrote: What would be brilliant fun for next year is if a team like caterham had randomly stumbled across the magic formula and were fastest on the grid (a bit like Braun a few years back).

That would be awesome. Even if they weren't up the front but suddenly were overtaking the williams, Saubers and force indias.

robin wrote:

Stu160 wrote:Biggest miracle is that Red Bull have not been caught cheeting yet !!! Lol.

Stu

The FIA technical bods must know what is different between the RB and the closest rivals. What is amazing to me is that that information has not found its way to the red team.

The flip side is that maybe there is no one thing and it's 1000 things each optimized and thus hard to copy?

Cheers
Robin

Interesting article in this month's Motorsport mag - Apparently the RB is designed around its blown diffuser, and it's by far the most efficient set up out there.

Vettel has mastered the driving technique required to make full use of it - It's a completely counter-intuitive way of driving an F1 car ("the complete opposite of what you'd do instinctively") , and he's the best there is at it.

Blown floor goes next year, so be interesting to see how he get on with a brand new car...

Fluoxetine wrote:[Interesting article in this month's Motorsport mag - Apparently the RB is designed around its blown diffuser, and it's by far the most efficient set up out there.

Vettel has mastered the driving technique required to make full use of it - It's a completely counter-intuitive way of driving an F1 car ("the complete opposite of what you'd do instinctively") , and he's the best there is at it.

Blown floor goes next year, so be interesting to see how he get on with a brand new car...

Maybe I am being a numpty saying this but I still dont think Vettel is one of the all time great drivers, he does well because he is at the front, but take his lead away and he doesnt produce fantastic drives through the field and epic battles to get back out in front. Good car, good lead and the right strategy and he does well but put him up against it and he isnt the best fighter out there ( IMHO) .
I will probably now be reminded of umpteen examples of where he has triumphed through adversity

j2 lot wrote:
Maybe I am being a numpty saying this but I still dont think Vettel is one of the all time great drivers, he does well because he is at the front, but take his lead away and he doesnt produce fantastic drives through the field and epic battles to get back out in front. Good car, good lead and the right strategy and he does well but put him up against it and he isnt the best fighter out there ( IMHO) .

I think a lot of F1 fans would agree with you in that assessment. Could Vettel haul an uncompetitive car up onto the podium where it has no right to be the way Alonso has done on many occasions? Can he pull off balls out overtaking manoeuvres in places where few others dare like Kimi? Maybe he can, but we haven't seen a lot of evidence of that in his career so far. Hopefully RB will produce a dog of a car next year so he can really prove himself Doesn't seem too likely with Newey there though....

It would have been more appetite-whetting had Red Bull employed a proven driver alongside Vettel for next season. He clearly is a fast driver, but he's certainly getting a free pass to 'greatness'. The same argument kind of holds for some of Schumacher's success too (some years best car, patsy team mate).

I'm not particularly pro Vettel, but he won in a torro rosso, which is similar to Senna getting 2nd in Monaco driving a Toleman. If my memory is correct.

My very amature assessment of F1 drivers is that they probably all have similar skills in terms of raw driving, but some can make better decisions than others, take the risks when they need to, spot the change of conditions, give the right feed back etc. The dominant car factor / suitable conditions etc will always mask true comparisons. Put them all back in gokarts with standard engines

I used to be of the opinion that he could only win from the front but over he has proven he can come through the field. Abu Dhabi and Brazil last year for example. Yes he was in a good car (not the best in 2012 remember) but he still put the moves on the field.

He has a great car but he still has to win with it. Not easy and over time he has earned my respect.