Scottish Elises

The Scottish government plans to have the A9 dualled all the way from Perth to Inverness by 2025 and A96 between Inverness and Aberdeen by 2030.

Can you imagine this happening in England?

tut

/title edited so it makes sense!

I wonder whether the second coming of christ/freedom bridge/second forth crossing has had any impact on the budget available to complete the A9 duelling - or maybe it just takes forever because of the need to keep the road working the whole time they are doing the work?

Meanwhile, the deaths continue ...

Cheers,
Robin

robin wrote:I wonder whether the second coming of christ/freedom bridge/second forth crossing has had any impact on the budget available to complete the A9 duelling - or maybe it just takes forever because of the need to keep the road working the whole time they are doing the work?

Meanwhile, the deaths continue ...

Cheers,
Robin

Remember, roads don't kill and cars don't kill - it's the drivers.

Yes, but they could be coming in the opposite direction or out of a side road which would not happen with dual carriageways.

Junctions are the biggest killers on the A9, head ons next.

tut

But it's down to volume traffic on a given road which determines who gets the money first. The central belt will always win because their roads are way more congested than any of ours. The A9 and A96 are nowhere near as bad as roads down south so there is no pressing urgency to dual carriage either of them. Accident black spots can be dealt with in other ways and your assuming they would slip road all junctions onto and off of a dual carriage way which will not be the case. It will give more room at the junction obviously but there will still be accidents.
I'm guessing here but likely that there projections show that by 2025/30 these roads will be at there limit for traffic volume and hence will be priority roads for upgrade. Simply put, at the moment there just isn't the volume on them now to warrant upgrading.

I work in michelin, and although they may not be the best company to work for, they do have a simple rule -
Safety first.
Now, they aren't perfect, but they do try and adhere to the rule more than I believe most companies, and have in the past sacrificed production to try and keep this philosophy.
When it comes to congestion etc surely this should come second to fatalities ?
Bob was held up for an extra half hour on his way to work - big deal
Bob was cut down in his prime due to an inherrintly unsafe road - truely that is a big deal.
The government have an obligation to ensure that getting to and from work is as safe as possible ?
surely the government should be guilty of culpability ?
If it was an odd accident now and again - regardless of the severity - it could be put down to drivers, but this road has had so many fatalities on it - it has to be something inheritantly wrong with this road.
I personally go out of my way to avoid driving on it (no amount of safe driving can help in a head on)
Adding extra carriageways around edinburgh wont help, as soon as you get to the outskirts it's gridlock anyway ?
If the family of the next fatality took the governemnt to court for death through negligence maybe that would help ?
Technically they are ultimitely responsible for the safety of it's citizens and saving someone five minutes off a journey is second to ensuring (as much as is viabely possible) someone has a safe journey ?

Right, have to get off my soapbox now, i'm getting a nosebleed

Good points though.

tut

Good points for a company and bear no relation to the A9 or the A96. I disagree completely with the statement"it has to be something inherently wrong with this road". Roads DO NOT kill people, people kill people. The A9 is actually one of the best A roads I've ever been on that is single carriage way. Some sections are so wide they are almost dual carriage way already. The A96 isn't all that bad either, but both require patience as you will happen across Joe Blogs doing 40mph if your lucky and have to wait till a suitable passing opportunity arises. People pulling out of junctions is harder to deal with but is again purely someone unable to judge approaching traffics speed. Now why the A9 is so bad I don't know but probably a lot to do with the amount of tourist traffic, foreign and domestic, that use it all the year round.
But blaming the road is ridiculous, you might as well say only blue cars can drive up it as they statistically have less accidents than all the other.

have a read of this

I agree that most of the accidents may be driver error, but clearly something needs to be done to protect drivers from their own incompetance. Also to protect the innocent drivers from the people that shouldn't be on the road. (their is a big difference from misjudging a gap in traffic for overtaking to just blindly assuming it is safe as they have a powerful car)
Driving around glencoe etc the amount of near head-ons i've seen when people overtake where they clearly can't see one hundred yards ahead is frightening, but it is impractical to dual every road, however the A9 is the main route north of perth.
I've been on back roads in england that are safer to drive on.
I can't enjoy the A9 purely due to the fact everytime I see a queue of traffic approaching from the opposite direction I worry about some nobber pulling out. When I am forced to drive this road I try to get in the middle of a 'train' so if it happens it wont happen to me. Although this means you have to pay particular attention to the 'same direction nobber' making his way along your 'train' into oncoming traffic.

I happen to really like the A9, and my views and experiences are well documented elsewhere on here.

It's all about how you use it. Including time of day etc.

Mikie711 wrote:Good points for a company and bear no relation to the A9 or the A96. I disagree completely with the statement"it has to be something inherently wrong with this road". Roads DO NOT kill people, people kill people. The A9 is actually one of the best A roads I've ever been on that is single carriage way. Some sections are so wide they are almost dual carriage way already. The A96 isn't all that bad either, but both require patience as you will happen across Joe Blogs doing 40mph if your lucky and have to wait till a suitable passing opportunity arises. People pulling out of junctions is harder to deal with but is again purely someone unable to judge approaching traffics speed. Now why the A9 is so bad I don't know but probably a lot to do with the amount of tourist traffic, foreign and domestic, that use it all the year round.
But blaming the road is ridiculous, you might as well say only blue cars can drive up it as they statistically have less accidents than all the other.

Agree completely. There's an issue with driver attitude in the UK. I've no idea how it can be addressed though. Big part of the problem is people have been conditioned to think overtakers are maniacs. I'm sure all of us on here have experienced being stuck in a queue where the driver in front refuses to leave a gap due to not having the power to overtake themselves, they'll pootle along at 40 up someone else's bumper than give you the flashing lights & Nescafe when you dare to "push in" in front of them. Having spent a bit of time driving in Poland recently in wide A type roads I've realised how poor British driving etiquette is. Over there slow moving traffic is much more frequent, lots of Polski Fiat 126s still on the go hence everyone will happily create a 3rd lane in wide roads to let each other go at their own pace without any hint of road rage.

Chucks wrote:

Mikie711 wrote:Good points for a company and bear no relation to the A9 or the A96. I disagree completely with the statement"it has to be something inherently wrong with this road". Roads DO NOT kill people, people kill people. The A9 is actually one of the best A roads I've ever been on that is single carriage way. Some sections are so wide they are almost dual carriage way already. The A96 isn't all that bad either, but both require patience as you will happen across Joe Blogs doing 40mph if your lucky and have to wait till a suitable passing opportunity arises. People pulling out of junctions is harder to deal with but is again purely someone unable to judge approaching traffics speed. Now why the A9 is so bad I don't know but probably a lot to do with the amount of tourist traffic, foreign and domestic, that use it all the year round.
But blaming the road is ridiculous, you might as well say only blue cars can drive up it as they statistically have less accidents than all the other.

Agree completely. There's an issue with driver attitude in the UK. I've no idea how it can be addressed though. Big part of the problem is people have been conditioned to think overtakers are maniacs. I'm sure all of us on here have experienced being stuck in a queue where the driver in front refuses to leave a gap due to not having the power to overtake themselves, they'll pootle along at 40 up someone else's bumper than give you the flashing lights & Nescafe when you dare to "push in" in front of them. Having spent a bit of time driving in Poland recently in wide A type roads I've realised how poor British driving etiquette is. Over there slow moving traffic is much more frequent, lots of Polski Fiat 126s still on the go hence everyone will happily create a 3rd lane in wide roads to let each other go at their own pace without any hint of road rage.

Very much agree with both statements.

The comment elsewhere about fearing an oncoming train of car for one pulling out is nonsense, this could be a potential on any road. The constant bad press has quite possibly subconsciously placed fear in you that if you drive the A9 you may die.

I'm in the same camp that I like the road, as I associate it wirh happy memories such as weekend breaks and road runs, all lined with stunning scenery

The tourist traffic is a major issue, and the A90 between Dundee and Aberdeen is a perfect example of dual carriageway with plenty risk due to small feeder roads and central reservation crossings, which the A9 would still have.

campbell wrote:I happen to really like the A9, and my views and experiences are well documented elsewhere on here.

It's all about how you use it. Including time of day etc.

One of the points though Campbell, is that it is how others use it, not yourself.

tut

Devils advocate. The south east have just bought us a big new bridge across the forth. One thing at a time.