Elise through the ages.

tut · Post by **tut** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:45 am

Always good to read about our car, good article in EVO on line.

Us oldies remember when there was only one choice, and you could wait upto 18 months to get one.

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/ ... ed6cdbf416

tut

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:13 am

They seem to like the S1 Sport 135

tut · Post by **tut** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:16 am

All the owners on here, including Kelv, reckoned it was the best of the lot.

tut

j2 lot · Post by **j2 lot** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:11 pm

Its good to see that it is still referred to as 'ahead of the game'

scott_e · Post by **scott_e** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:25 pm

Interesting article Tut, thanks for the heads up , enjoyable read. Ok I am no expert and fall far short of most of you with automotive knowledge on this forum but I don't feel Lotus are ahead of the game and if they are its negligible. The competition have caught up in terms of lightweight and innovative design. I am sure there are market and legislative forces in effect making this near impossible but I long for a newer lighter lotus with no mod cons more akin to the original S1 that will wow people with its performance for the price. Too niche maybe ???

Post by **Shug** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:41 pm

I've had this particular debate with Graeme at MMC several times when he worked there, over several cups of coffee

His take was that you can't make a car as stripped as the S1 was now (type approved for mass sale - SVA small numbers, yes) and that the market was saturated for the stripped back S1 style with stripped back S1s, or more extreme things like Caterhams, or Lotus own 211.

The view held was that to increase sales, the cars had to appeal to a wider market - not just the masochists like me who saw the small doors, high sills and no frills of the S1 as an attraction. Problem is, you take the Elise platform and try to add stuff, it dilutes the concept and there's an argument that says a new platform would better accommodate the different demands of the 21st century. But the Elise platform is tried and trusted - a proven (and paid for) asset that still has merit.

I'd love to be able to buy a new S1 today and I bet there's a large number who would join me. I'd also love if they took the sort of leap they did in the 90s when the S1 concept appeared out of the minds of some incredibly talented engineers - but regulation stifles that so much these days that blue-sky thinking needs so much investment to get it through regulations. Tough, when you're running on 2 bob and a Lion Bar (tougher than it was in the 90s when the financial situation was the same, but the hoops to jump through were looser...)

woody · Post by **woody** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:48 pm

scott_e wrote:Interesting article Tut, thanks for the heads up , enjoyable read. Ok I am no expert and fall far short of most of you with automotive knowledge on this forum but I don't feel Lotus are ahead of the game and if they are its negligible. The competition have caught up in terms of lightweight and innovative design. I am sure there are market and legislative forces in effect making this near impossible but I long for a newer lighter lotus with no mod cons more akin to the original S1 that will wow people with its performance for the price. Too niche maybe ???

An original Elite is circa 500kg. So in much the same way as the S1 Elise couldnn't make that (and the Elite was a coupe) things have moved on to the point where a legal car with the capabilities of an S1 is no longer possible at the same weight and price point.

tut · Post by **tut** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:58 pm

Short answer is that you can not turn the clock back.

The Elise was a brilliant concept and saved Lotus, but it was impossible for Lotus to carry on building the same car for the foreseeable future, even without legislation moving the goalposts every few years. All the new safety devices that have to be installed nowadays, yet when you look at the basic Elise, lord knows how many write offs we have had on S_E, Robin's and mine being two of the worst(Scotty was in an Exige), yet we mostly walked away afterwards. As far as I know we have had no fatalities in my 14 years, and I can only think of Brian Laing who was quite badly injured.

They are tough little cars with nothing more than a chassis and clams.

tut

sendmyusername · Post by **sendmyusername** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:03 pm

It's a pity they couldn't do another small run every couple of years.
Just few enough to slip under the mass produced criteria
I know the costs would be prohibitive and they have sold manufacturing parts onto other suppliers.
Also the choice of engine would be more limited. (I personally like the torquey nature of the k series over the revvy nature of the toyota.)
But. I think they'd find even at a premium price people would still pay over the odds for a split new s1 derivitive, and it would increase interest in the brand and the old S1 ( pushing up my sell on price

)

I don't think lotus push the branding as much as they could, for example I tried to get a diecast model of an S1 recently and it was a nightmare (it was for a gift) now seeing as it's not at cost to them to make it (they just give out the permissions and can keep approval of finished model) i'm surprised no one pushed to do this.
Before anyone asks -
Who buys toy cars ? - children
What do children grow up to be ? - Bigger children
What do bigger children want when they are bigger children ? - Lifesize toys like they used to play with
Obviously godzilla fans and transformer fans are going to be disappointed when they grown up, but planting the seeds of lotus into the minds of kids that may then grow into loyal customers mainly because the toy they played with captured their imagination. (the s1 is a very pretty car) obviously by the time they grow up the s1's will be long in the tooth, but they may well be interested in the newer models.
So not much outlay - free advertising ....

Post by **campbell** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:21 am

Can you still buy a new S1 chassis and subframe?

rossybee · Post by **rossybee** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:38 am

Who now owns the s1 tooling etc?

sendmyusername · Post by **sendmyusername** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:50 am

I'm sure the mouldings were sold on, possible to caterham ?
As for building your own one from scratch, the costs would be prohibitive.
I read an article in mcn about the fireblade in about 2009.
Cost new was about 9grand, cost building it with new spares was about 21grand.
(although they priced every single engine component instead of price for one complete engine)
Labour costs weren't included.
It was a two-fold story
1 - to highlight the rip off in buying spares
2 - to show why so many bikes are sold and just stripped instead of ringed
If you were makinga batch of about 30, it would rationalise the process and reduce costs

Mikie711 · Post by **Mikie711** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:05 am

rossybee wrote:Who now owns the s1 tooling etc?

Think it is still Hydro that make the chassis for Lotus

rossybee · Post by **rossybee** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:17 am

Was wondering as there was mention that Caterham might have the rights, something I didn't think was the case.

tut · Post by **tut** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:00 am

campbell wrote:Can you still buy a new S1 chassis and subframe?

You can certainly buy a new subframe, I had to for N1, and the following is available from SJsportscars.

http://www.sjsportscars.co.uk/index.php?mod=10

ELISE S1 'PARTIAL BODY' (RHD)
A 'partial body' is the chassis with sills, front crash structure, roll over bar and widscreen frame bonded in position. A111A0230J ASSY £3,752.50

REAR SUBFRAME G111A0057F EACH £716.11

So quite feasible to build a new S1 probably without breaking the bank.

tut

Scottish Elises

Elise through the ages.

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