VAT in restaurants

[Ferg]

Was out for a meal tonight and when settling the bill, cash only, I was unable to get a VAT receipt. When queried they said they weren't registered.

I was rather surprised, knowing this to be a very busy place, pretty much anytime I've been in.

Are restaurants exempt to higher revenue levels? Or is this normal? Felt a little dodgy to me but I could be wrong. Thought the SE hive mind might have an answer.

[pete]

I was out in Thursday and asked for a VAT receipt and was told "the owner doesn't like to give out the VAT number"

[steviej]

A friend of mine used to have a restaraunt and his biggest gripe was the fact that he wasn't allowed to reclaim vat on the raw ingredients that he had to buy like meat, veg etc but had to pay vat from the price of a cooked and served meal that he sold.
It doesnt sound very fair but of course may have changed since.

[tut]

There is no VAT payable on food in a restaurant, but there would be on alcohol.

As the threshold is £79K, they would have to exceed that on sales other than food, so they could be legitimately non VAT registered.

tut

[shooomer]

That's not correct tut
Vat is charged on hot food consumed in premises

[shooomer]

A friend of mine used to have a restaraunt and his biggest gripe was the fact that he wasn't allowed to reclaim vat on the raw ingredients that he had to buy like meat, veg etc but had to pay vat from the price of a cooked and served meal that he sold.
It doesnt sound very fair but of course may have changed since.

Still the same

[robin]

Retail VAT receipts can be simplified but must still show business name/address and VAT number I believe. So you should be able to demand a VAT receipt unless the business is not VAT registered (though they could just say "we're not registered" and you would know no better unless you looked them up).
Cheers,
Robin

[BigD]

I didn't think there was VAT on raw ingredients like veg or meat. For example if I go to makro and buy chicken breasts it has zero VAT. So if there is no VAT then they cannot reclaim it. When the restaurant adds value by turning that into a meal then they charge VAT to be collected and passed to HMRC. I could be wrong though.

[Dominic]

It could be that they are not VAT registered, if it is a very small restaurant with a low turnover, or a new place that has not reached the £79K compulsory registration threshold.

Otherwise, they must be VAT registered, must charge VAT on restaurant food, and must give you a receipt showing their VAT number etc.

Many of the raw ingredients will be zero rated for VAT, so VAT can not be reclaimed where it has not been collected in the first place. People who moan about having to pay VAT bills do not grasp the principle of it; it is Value ADDED tax; it is added onto the price that they are charging; they are simply adding it to their prices, keeping it till the end of the VAT quarter, and then handing it over to HMRC (less the VAT they have paid on expenses). Essentially they are acting as a tax collector.

RE Pete's comment - "the owner does not like to give out his VAT number"... utter bollocks - he is legally bound to show it on receipts / invoices - nobody can use it for anything anyway.... unless they wanted to pay hid VAT liability

[tut]

You must always charge VAT at the standard rate if you make a supply of food and drink for consumption on the premises on which it is supplied

Got mixed up between no VAT payable on the raw materials, but has to be paid when they are cooked and served to customers. I think it actually says very often on the menu that VAT is included.

tut

[Dominic]

Of course, the rules are one thing, but some still present you with a bill, then subject to whether you are paying with cash or card, will decide which till to put it through.....

[pete]

Of course, the rules are one thing, but some still present you with a bill, then subject to whether you are paying with cash or card, will decide which till to put it through.....

I think it was that one...

[Titanium S1 111S (gla)]

There is a legal obligation to give a VAT receipt / invoice if you are VAT registered.

So if you will not give a VAT receipt then I will not pay the bill. . . . .(or at least the VAT on it).

Am I correct in thinking that a business can reclaim VAT on subsistence type meals while working away from home but not on any type of client entertainment type stuff?