Anyone fluent in lawyer speak ?

[BiggestNizzy]

Background

I have fallen out with my factor again after receiving a letter telling me my windows need painting and asking for £300.
I have looked at my windows and they seem fine.

I asked for a little more information and he said it was all in the "deed of conditions" and generally the exterior painting should be done every 3 to 5 years (it was built 6 years ago)

Anyway he got back to me today with an excerpt from the deeds that according to him say that I need to pay the cash.

TWELFTH
The Proprietor shall maintain in good order and repair In all time coming and to the satisfaction or us or our foresaids or our Property managers the said house and domestic offices and also the said fences and perimeter walls as aforesaid, and should the proprietor fail to maintain reasonably the same as aforesaid we or our foresaids shall be entitled by our own tradesmen to execute such repairs thereon as we may consider necessary and that at the expense of the proprietor; The Proprietor shall also decorate the outside of the said house, conform to a general scheme which we or our foresaids at our option shall be entitled to specify; Declaring that in the event of a Residents ' Association or other body being herein after formed in terms of Condition Fifteenth hereof such Association or body shall be responsible for administering and enforcing such general scheme;

If anyone can read that and tell me where I stand I would be very appreciative

I also asked why a guy on the ground floor with 4 windows should pay the same as a person on the 3rd floor with 15 widows and he tells me that have been worked into it, although it is strange how my £300 bill is exactly 1/33 of the £9,900.00 bill.

[RDH]

I take it there are 33 flats?
The title deeds should determine the portion of the repairs and maintenance allocated to your flat. I pay 1/6th of the repairs as there are 6 flats - though some deeds apportion the costs on a different basis depending on the layouts etc. ( ie one flat may pay 1/12th and another 1/4, and the remiaining four 1/6th.

Your argument re the 4 windows versus 12 doesn't generally work in communal properties- would you argue that the roof is the sole responsibility of the top floor flat?

Sounds like the factor's doing preventative maintenance -which will save you some hassle in the long run!
Grin and bear it!

[BiggestNizzy]

I take it there are 33 flats?
The title deeds should determine the portion of the repairs and maintenance allocated to your flat. I pay 1/6th of the repairs as there are 6 flats - though some deeds apportion the costs on a different basis depending on the layouts etc. ( ie one flat may pay 1/12th and another 1/4, and the remiaining four 1/6th.

Your argument re the 4 windows versus 12 doesn't generally work in communal properties- would you argue that the roof is the sole responsibility of the top floor flat?

Sounds like the factor's doing preventative maintenance -which will save you some hassle in the long run!
Grin and bear it!

The roof is specifically mentioned (but not the ceiling joists in the top flat) as are the exterior walls and the foundations. from what I can gather this has been instigated by some of my neighbours.
My bill is already £1365 a year (or £45K for the building) I really don't want it going up any more

[RDH]

£1365 a year - is that not a fair bit for a year old flat? I pay around £1000 per annum including buildings insurance - and we're talking about a 130 year old building?
Seems a bit steep! If you get a quorum of the block to agree - you can enforce a change of property managers - ( I've threatened ours with this, and the service has improved) BUT to be honest they're all pretty bad in my experience! ( no offence to any Property managers on here!)

[BiggestNizzy]

£1365 a year - is that not a fair bit for a year old flat? I pay around £1000 per annum including buildings insurance - and we're talking about a 130 year old building?
Seems a bit steep! If you get a quorum of the block to agree - you can enforce a change of property managers - ( I've threatened ours with this, and the service has improved) BUT to be honest they're all pretty bad in my experience! ( no offence to any Property managers on here!)

That was tried a guy spent 3 months getting quotes etc but when push came to shove everybody said they where happy (strange how they never say that when I speak to them) that and nobody ever asked me if I wanted to change.

The building is 100 years old

[DDtB]

I had dealings with the Greenbelt group in a previous property.... without a doubt the worst company I have ever come across ... ever!!

Had a face to face with one of the Directors about their standard of work and was told something along the lines of "we can charge what we like, we don't have to tell you what we're going to do and don't have to provide any proof we've done it... your title deeds put us in charge of the land around your house so pay up and shut up... hahahaha!!!"

/back on topic... move along now....

[Tom]

When Ed and I had flats in Dicksonfield in Edinburgh a few years ago, we (a large percentage of owners) managed to remove the factoring contract from Peveral (who were utterly useless) in favour of James Gibb, who were much better. Theory was an Edinburgh based Factor were less likely to sh*t on their own doorstep. Def. a change for the better though.

Even further drift... Why do the West coast (Weeg) peeps have factors for old buildings? In Edin it seems only the new builds have factors. I asked Chris Knott for a house insurance quote and they couldn't give one as they won't insure a building that's not wholly owned by me. We live in an old building of Tenement style flats, and everyone has their own buildings/contents cover...

[BiggestNizzy]

It used to be a technical school and was converted to flats in 2003, that is why it's an old building with a factor

[kenny]

Even further drift... Why do the West coast (Weeg) peeps have factors for old buildings?

100+ year old weeg tenements can throw up a variety of interesting and highly expensive structural problems

[Tom]

Aha Cheers Nizzy/Kenny . I've found it quite difficult/expensive to get house insurance in an old building with no factor.Been with direct line for years as a result. Couldn't believe it the first time someone said ' sorry we can't insure you without a factor'...

[BiggestNizzy]

My buildings insurance is with my factor and it costs me more ! even though they tell me I am getting a better deal. as a comparison I checked with direct line and it was cheaper. Unfortunatly I am stuck with either who the factor chooses or I have to get all my neighbours to agree on someone else.

[renmure]

We had Trinity (think they are Edinburgh based) as factor for the Aberdeen house. A bigger bunch of muppets it would be hard to meet. Last year we voted to change factor and so far... nothing much has changed for the better. ho hum

[jason]

There's no such thing as a 'good' factor IMHO.

When you consider their (relatively small) fees, you realise just how little of their time annually you are buying. You get what you pay for, but I've yet to meet anyone (friends or neighbours) who've complained that the factor is too cheap!

[Northernpar]

Background

I have fallen out with my factor again after receiving a letter telling me my windows need painting and asking for £300.
I have looked at my windows and they seem fine.

I asked for a little more information and he said it was all in the "deed of conditions" and generally the exterior painting should be done every 3 to 5 years (it was built 6 years ago)

Anyway he got back to me today with an excerpt from the deeds that according to him say that I need to pay the cash.

TWELFTH
The Proprietor shall maintain in good order and repair In all time coming and to the satisfaction or us or our foresaids or our Property managers the said house and domestic offices and also the said fences and perimeter walls as aforesaid, and should the proprietor fail to maintain reasonably the same as aforesaid we or our foresaids shall be entitled by our own tradesmen to execute such repairs thereon as we may consider necessary and that at the expense of the proprietor; The Proprietor shall also decorate the outside of the said house, conform to a general scheme which we or our foresaids at our option shall be entitled to specify; Declaring that in the event of a Residents ' Association or other body being herein after formed in terms of Condition Fifteenth hereof such Association or body shall be responsible for administering and enforcing such general scheme;

If anyone can read that and tell me where I stand I would be very appreciative

I also asked why a guy on the ground floor with 4 windows should pay the same as a person on the 3rd floor with 15 widows and he tells me that have been worked into it, although it is strange how my £300 bill is exactly 1/33 of the £9,900.00 bill.

I'm no lawyer but here's what I make of it:

You need to maintain the property to their standard and satisfaction after notification and within a resonable period of time otherwise they will get a contractor in to do the work and bill you for it. Arguing the toss that your windows look ok won't wash as they will play the old paint/fresh paint card and the impact on the overall aesthetics of the building. The only defence is if all the residents agree that the work isn't required then you have a position to defend.

However, rather than pay the £300 what you can do is ask them to make available the general scheme/specification and once received inform them that you will complete the work on your windows to the said specification by your own means. Then as it's a ground floor flat and assuming that there are no access problems to the windows head off to B&Q buy the same paint and a paintbrush and do the job yourself and save some cash. However if you don't do a proper job then you could leave yourself open to a bill for remedial work.

[BiggestNizzy]

After a week of emails I have found out that it is my fellow residents that are pushing it through, it would appear that some of the windows do infact need painting ( I am taking my neighbours word for this as I can't be bothered wondering around the building and peering at everyones windows).

So at a meeting I was unable to attend due to work they agreed to have all the external windows rubbed down and repainted, the communal interior windows to be repainted and a rear wall of the building painted. It was decided in my absence that as you can spread the cost of scafolding/cherry picker if everyones was done

I am happy to pay for the communal work (hell it's only £113) but I am extremly reluctant to have my windows done when they don't need it.

And if I am honest a small (and I do mean small) reason is my neighbours knocked back requests to have the building bird proofed (as they didn't have a problem with it and I do) why paint them so they can be incrusted with sh*t ?

I also found out today that they are wanting to repaint the entire interior, re-carpet the interior , repaint the cast iron railings that surround the building and replace the powered gates that I previosly fixed, offered to get new remotes and code them only for them to knock me back as some didn't want to spend money on remotes ffs

and whats worse this will greatly effect the get the elise all fixed and shiny fund!