Unbelievable co-oincidence, Dave Richards helicopter has just crashed on the way back from SPA. Luckily not badly injured,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/6997784.stm
Glad I gave up helicopter lessons a few months ago!!!!
ANOTHER Helicopter crash
ANOTHER Helicopter crash
Paul G
The elder, occasionally more sensible member of "Team Still Game"
The elder, occasionally more sensible member of "Team Still Game"
Re: ANOTHER Helicopter crash
Took me nearly 25 years to get back in a helicopter (with Skye at Ingliston) after surviving TWO helicopter crashes at sea (both with fatalities) during my time in the Fleet Air Arm. In one of them I was rescued by a guy I had trained in helicopter crew rescue two years before. I have to admit I had to hide my feelings when in the air with Skye and all this sad news has made me realise the trauma is still thereruadh08 wrote:
Glad I gave up helicopter lessons a few months ago!!!!
Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Sports Hatch - not as slow as my old Corsa 
BMW R1200GS - Fast as F@ck spec - 0-60 in 3.2 secs
BMW R1200GS - Fast as F@ck spec - 0-60 in 3.2 secs
I do not know the facts, but begin to wonder about the capability of private helicopter pilots when conditions deteriorate, especially without warning. In fact it is the most common cause of private helicopter fatalities
Most do not have instument ratings, which means that you should not continue flying, or even take off if you can not meet VFR criteria.
However this is very often ignored when it comes to the crunch.
tut
Most do not have instument ratings, which means that you should not continue flying, or even take off if you can not meet VFR criteria.
However this is very often ignored when it comes to the crunch.
tut
Just read that again and realised that Richards was actually piloting, I thought he was a passenger.
If he heard a loud bang from the rear, then it was probably a transmission/tail rotor bearing failure, so he would have had to carry out an engine off, run on landing, which hopefully he had been trained in and practised.
In a light helicopter like that it is possible to still cruise at 100 knots and fly to an airfield, the slip stream effect means the tail rotor is doing very little, but the natural reaction is to reduce speed and descend which would cause the helicopter to spin, and a controlled crash would be the best that could be hoped for.
End result though was that they both walked away from it, though as Paul says, two in one day with connected pilots should just not be possible.
tut
If he heard a loud bang from the rear, then it was probably a transmission/tail rotor bearing failure, so he would have had to carry out an engine off, run on landing, which hopefully he had been trained in and practised.
In a light helicopter like that it is possible to still cruise at 100 knots and fly to an airfield, the slip stream effect means the tail rotor is doing very little, but the natural reaction is to reduce speed and descend which would cause the helicopter to spin, and a controlled crash would be the best that could be hoped for.
End result though was that they both walked away from it, though as Paul says, two in one day with connected pilots should just not be possible.
tut
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Titanium S1 111S (gla)
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- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:31 pm
I’m no expert on Helicopters, unlike Tut and Skyenet but I have been up a lot with a private pilot over the last while.
My pal who is a PP and has a Jet Ranger is very safety minded and I’ve never felt unsafe with him. He has done about 1200 hours in 2.5 years so while he has fair hours for a PP he is very inexperienced compared to a commercial pilot of any standing. If the weather comes down we don’t take off and if it comes down after we have taken off then we land.
I had been thinking of taking lessons but wonder whether it is such a good idea. I’d be limited to occasional hire of a Robinson and they are much more fragile and less forgiving than the Twin Squirrel which Colin McRae was flying or the Eurocopter EC 135 which Dave Richards was flying.
One of the best toys which lots and lots of money can buy IMHO but not worth your life or your passengers'.
Tut, Skynet - Just out of curiosity how difficult would it be for my pal with 1200 hours under his belt to get himself instrument rated?
My pal who is a PP and has a Jet Ranger is very safety minded and I’ve never felt unsafe with him. He has done about 1200 hours in 2.5 years so while he has fair hours for a PP he is very inexperienced compared to a commercial pilot of any standing. If the weather comes down we don’t take off and if it comes down after we have taken off then we land.
I had been thinking of taking lessons but wonder whether it is such a good idea. I’d be limited to occasional hire of a Robinson and they are much more fragile and less forgiving than the Twin Squirrel which Colin McRae was flying or the Eurocopter EC 135 which Dave Richards was flying.
One of the best toys which lots and lots of money can buy IMHO but not worth your life or your passengers'.
Tut, Skynet - Just out of curiosity how difficult would it be for my pal with 1200 hours under his belt to get himself instrument rated?
Graham
I did 6 hours of lessons in a Robinson, and really enjoyed it. However, when I really started thinking about what I would do with the license once I got it, I started having second thoughts, and did a reality check.
To be a safe helicopter pilot, you MUST fly regularly, so that everything becomes second nature, allowing you to react immediately in an emergency.
With the costs and weather restrictions etc, I reckoned that I would only get to fly about 10 - 20 hours a year, therfor in reality could not get the experience to be a safe pilot. I have since taken up microlighting, which for an amateur recreational pilot like me is probably a safer bet.
Both Dave Richards and Colin Mcrae were very experienced pilots, but when things mechanical go wrong when you are close to the ground, you have no chance. Dave and his wife were very lucky to walk away from their crash yesterday. If fire had been involved, they probably wouldnt have.
Although Colin took many risks in a rally car, I suspect that he was a very sensible and competant pilot, and certainly with kids on board would not be taking risks.
I would imagine that the outcome of the investigators will be a major failure of some mechanical component when they came into land, leaving them no chance.
Very very sad, the motorsport world will take a long time to recover.
To be a safe helicopter pilot, you MUST fly regularly, so that everything becomes second nature, allowing you to react immediately in an emergency.
With the costs and weather restrictions etc, I reckoned that I would only get to fly about 10 - 20 hours a year, therfor in reality could not get the experience to be a safe pilot. I have since taken up microlighting, which for an amateur recreational pilot like me is probably a safer bet.
Both Dave Richards and Colin Mcrae were very experienced pilots, but when things mechanical go wrong when you are close to the ground, you have no chance. Dave and his wife were very lucky to walk away from their crash yesterday. If fire had been involved, they probably wouldnt have.
Although Colin took many risks in a rally car, I suspect that he was a very sensible and competant pilot, and certainly with kids on board would not be taking risks.
I would imagine that the outcome of the investigators will be a major failure of some mechanical component when they came into land, leaving them no chance.
Very very sad, the motorsport world will take a long time to recover.
Paul G
The elder, occasionally more sensible member of "Team Still Game"
The elder, occasionally more sensible member of "Team Still Game"
Graham
Unfortunately it is an expensive business when you are paying for it yourself. However as he is a private pilot and not looking to fly commercially, he would not need the same level of licence, or the hours experience on twin engined helicopters.
In fact I set this up for Hyla Breese (used to race Elises and was an Instructor with Lotus) last year as he had to have an Instrument Rating along with his ATPL to fly on the North Sea. The best bet turned out to be a Danish Company, but it still cost him £20K to get his Rating.
Let me check up on the latest regulations for a PPL, and I will get back to you.
tut
Unfortunately it is an expensive business when you are paying for it yourself. However as he is a private pilot and not looking to fly commercially, he would not need the same level of licence, or the hours experience on twin engined helicopters.
In fact I set this up for Hyla Breese (used to race Elises and was an Instructor with Lotus) last year as he had to have an Instrument Rating along with his ATPL to fly on the North Sea. The best bet turned out to be a Danish Company, but it still cost him £20K to get his Rating.
Let me check up on the latest regulations for a PPL, and I will get back to you.
tut
IMvHO - helicopters simply ought to be flown by professionals only - there have been so many fatalities over the last few years which could possibly be put down to pilot error (and I must stress don't mean either of these recent and tragic events). Having done a lot of flying as a nipper in a Cessna F152a, the difference and complexity of flying a helicopter as opposed to a light aircraft is simply staggering.
In all honesty I can't fly in a helicopter, even as a pax, as I simply don't understand how the thing can and does fly!
In all honesty I can't fly in a helicopter, even as a pax, as I simply don't understand how the thing can and does fly!
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Titanium S1 111S (gla)
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- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:31 pm
Thanks Tut but don’t go to too much trouble, I was really just curious. I don't think he has any real intention of getting instrument rating.
Does the time need to be in twin engine machines? Obviously his Bell Jet Ranger is a single rather than a twin so I doubt he will have had much, if any time in twins.
£20k sounds expensive but if that is commercial then I suppose you are working on another scale of expense and these guys who fly there own helicopters probably aren’t down to their last £20k anyway.
ruadh08
I have been thinking much the same thing. Unless you are on a different scale of wealthy and can afford to buy / lease / maintain / run your own helicopter then the licence is probably not very useful and the cost of maintaining it is high.
Its just that I'm fascinated with helicopters and the access they give you to the west cost and western isles which are spectacular.
Unless I get a Euro-millions win then it is really just a dream. Must start buying tickets.
Does the time need to be in twin engine machines? Obviously his Bell Jet Ranger is a single rather than a twin so I doubt he will have had much, if any time in twins.
£20k sounds expensive but if that is commercial then I suppose you are working on another scale of expense and these guys who fly there own helicopters probably aren’t down to their last £20k anyway.
ruadh08
I have been thinking much the same thing. Unless you are on a different scale of wealthy and can afford to buy / lease / maintain / run your own helicopter then the licence is probably not very useful and the cost of maintaining it is high.
Its just that I'm fascinated with helicopters and the access they give you to the west cost and western isles which are spectacular.
Unless I get a Euro-millions win then it is really just a dream. Must start buying tickets.
Graham
Graham
Best web site for info and requirements is here http://www.rotorflight.co.uk/ifr.html
Even for a PPL the Instrument Rating would be an expensive business. It is possible to get a Night Rating a lot more cheaply, but that as it sounds only allows you to fly at night in VFR conditions.
It would help if you happened to get into cloud and needed to fly straight and level for a short period, but the problem with getting into IFR conditions is that you have to get back out of them, which usually means descending, and you do not want to do that unless you are using instrument procedures at an Airport, or are over the sea with no obstacles on it, and that means having radar onboard.
tut
Best web site for info and requirements is here http://www.rotorflight.co.uk/ifr.html
Even for a PPL the Instrument Rating would be an expensive business. It is possible to get a Night Rating a lot more cheaply, but that as it sounds only allows you to fly at night in VFR conditions.
It would help if you happened to get into cloud and needed to fly straight and level for a short period, but the problem with getting into IFR conditions is that you have to get back out of them, which usually means descending, and you do not want to do that unless you are using instrument procedures at an Airport, or are over the sea with no obstacles on it, and that means having radar onboard.
tut
Greg
Partly agree with that, as even amongst professionals and Military, around 80% of accidents are caused by Pilot error.
However in Colins case, I believe he had thousands of hours in command, a twin engined aircraft, and I would think that he probably held an Instrument Rating as well. He also had the money to not worry about keeping his hours up, and hopefully even getting extra instruction on emergencies that do not happen so often, ie tail rotor failures, hydraulic failure, lightning strikes, complete instrument and lights failure when you are on finals to an Oil Platform or Airport, at night in a snow blizzard, etc.
So he was probably close to being as capable as a professional pilot, and with his ability and background, better than many.
In a twin engine helicopter an engine failure is the least of your problems, if you are in the cruise then about the only thing that is catastrophic is a main rotor failure. As with all aircraft outside of war, most accidents and fatalities occur when coming in to land.
tut
Partly agree with that, as even amongst professionals and Military, around 80% of accidents are caused by Pilot error.
However in Colins case, I believe he had thousands of hours in command, a twin engined aircraft, and I would think that he probably held an Instrument Rating as well. He also had the money to not worry about keeping his hours up, and hopefully even getting extra instruction on emergencies that do not happen so often, ie tail rotor failures, hydraulic failure, lightning strikes, complete instrument and lights failure when you are on finals to an Oil Platform or Airport, at night in a snow blizzard, etc.
So he was probably close to being as capable as a professional pilot, and with his ability and background, better than many.
In a twin engine helicopter an engine failure is the least of your problems, if you are in the cruise then about the only thing that is catastrophic is a main rotor failure. As with all aircraft outside of war, most accidents and fatalities occur when coming in to land.
tut
I dont agree this country is too restrictive as it is . if people want to do anything as long as it harms nobody else so be it . If you go down that route hangliding , gliding , microlighting , paracending , paramotoring , fixed wing all have accidents . Hell look at the carnage on the road every day the death toll is huge but nobody wants to make that proffesionals only .GregR wrote:IMvHO - helicopters simply ought to be flown by professionals only - there have been so many fatalities over the last few years which could possibly be put down to pilot error (and I must stress don't mean either of these recent and tragic events). Having done a lot of flying as a nipper in a Cessna F152a, the difference and complexity of flying a helicopter as opposed to a light aircraft is simply staggering.
In all honesty I can't fly in a helicopter, even as a pax, as I simply don't understand how the thing can and does fly!
I had a PPL microlights and was told to cover my eyes and tell the instructor what the attitude was after carrying out a manouvre . I thought we were turning right when we were straight and level , disorientation it very scary .
The thing with a PPL even with your own plane the weather in this country is rubbish and bang for your buck factor goes down . Its why I got an Elise . In hindsight it was the challenge of getting the licence taht did it for me.
No lotus
Exige Sport 350 (Sold)
Elise Cup 250 (Air con and radio tubby spec) (Sold)
Evora S (sold)
Exige Sport 350 (Sold)
Elise Cup 250 (Air con and radio tubby spec) (Sold)
Evora S (sold)
But that's my point in a nutshelltenkfeet wrote:as it harms nobody else so be itGregR wrote:IMvHO - helicopters simply ought to be flown by professionals only - there have been so many fatalities over the last few years which could possibly be put down to pilot error (and I must stress don't mean either of these recent and tragic events). Having done a lot of flying as a nipper in a Cessna F152a, the difference and complexity of flying a helicopter as opposed to a light aircraft is simply staggering.
In all honesty I can't fly in a helicopter, even as a pax, as I simply don't understand how the thing can and does fly!
