MMC

[BiggestNizzy]

apparently , the ecu reconises when the revs are held above 4500rpm for more than 5 seconds , then if the car hits 0-60 within a certain time then the ECU records this . Maybe one to watch for all the guys who frequent tracks and have warrenty remaining.

Is it just me that doesn't really see anything wrong with the engine being reved or someone doing a fast 0-60 time ? these are the things that get quoted in the sales guff or does it say somewhere next to all the racing info

if you do any of this cool stuff we have waxed lyrical about your warranty is null and void HA HA

[Jamie84]

apparently , the ecu reconises when the revs are held above 4500rpm for more than 5 seconds , then if the car hits 0-60 within a certain time then the ECU records this . Maybe one to watch for all the guys who frequent tracks and have warrenty remaining.

Is it just me that doesn't really see anything wrong with the engine being reved or someone doing a fast 0-60 time ? these are the things that get quoted in the sales guff or does it say somewhere next to all the racing info

if you do any of this cool stuff we have waxed lyrical about your warranty is null and void HA HA

Tell me bout it m8 !!!........was watching an old top gear there that done a feature on "track day" cars, think there was a caterham , atom , radical and an lotus elise 190.

Yeah great track day cars eh ,nearly made me sick , the stig was absolutely nailing the 190 around the track! I thought thats what they were for ?

trackday car when lotus are selling but not when fixing

[jj]

apparently , the ecu reconises when the revs are held above 4500rpm for more than 5 seconds , then if the car hits 0-60 within a certain time then the ECU records this . Maybe one to watch for all the guys who frequent tracks and have warrenty remaining.

Is it just me that doesn't really see anything wrong with the engine being reved or someone doing a fast 0-60 time ? these are the things that get quoted in the sales guff or does it say somewhere next to all the racing info

if you do any of this cool stuff we have waxed lyrical about your warranty is null and void HA HA

Tell me bout it m8 !!!........was watching an old top gear there that done a feature on "track day" cars, think there was a caterham , atom , radical and an lotus elise 190.

Yeah great track day cars eh ,nearly made me sick , the stig was absolutely nailing the 190 around the track! I thought thats what they were for ?

trackday car when lotus are selling but not when fixing

Afraid I can see Lotus` point of view - they need to have some degree of "being able to tell how the car has been used" when honouring warranty repairs; warranty is there to sort out material defects, not keep something running which has been abused.

Whether or not you were the one doing the standing starts or whatever is not their problem, their responsibility lies in fixing things that shouldnt have broken during normal use, and that is what you are going to have to argue about.

[Edin430]

there are a few places that will do spares -

http://www.douglasvalley.co.uk

see what happens first though!!

Lewis

[Jamie84]

iv noticed an exige "S" on that site , anyone know if both gearboxes are identical?

I am not really to sure how this would work , would MMC fit a second hand box ? would this invalidate my warrenty or stop me from extending it ?

I totally agree with what you are saying JJ, its just the chance you take when buying private iam sure there are plenty more cars around that have been subject to the same abuse.

[robin]

If you are paying they'll fit what you ask them too, provided it's a lotus part or a reasonable alternative. However, a Lotus part fitted by a Lotus dealer will have a different kind of warranty than a non-Lotus part IIRC.

The clutch in the S2 exige and 111R is weak and not fit for purpose IMHO (just look at the number of failed clutches on S2 yota cars vs. K cars - both are 1.8 engines and the yota doesn't have that much more torque than the K in the <5,000 RPM range).

If the clutch were just worn out, I woudl say it's your tough luck - you & previous owner have used the clutch heavily, and now it needs replacing.

However, in this case the clutch material is fine and there has been a mechanical failure in the clutch. If lotus are saying this is due to standing starts which they record in their ECU, then they have a faulty design (their ECU should prevent this "abuse" of the car rather than simply facilitate it and then record the results).

TBH 6 standing starts is bugger all and they should stop messing about. Don't take it lying down - when this happened to me I said that I wouldn't pay and for all I cared they could keep the car in bits at the dealer forever.

If you really end up having to pay, remember that you have options about who fits the replacement box and where it comes from. Also if it's just a cracked gearbox housing you could potentially get it welded which might be cheaper than sourcing a replacement.

A tip for people in the future - reflash your ECU as it clears the history I think

Cheers,
Robin

[BiggestNizzy]

"during normal use"

thats my point surely the car is designed for track use, of some description.

"with a new and more powerful engine, which revs up to 8500 rpm"
"0-60 mph 4.9 seconds"

I'm sure to get close to a 4.9s 0-60 you will have to rev it

[GregR]

any way peeps can get the diagnostic or ECU software on a laptop and plug into a car for scrutinising before purchase?

[mac]

I dare say Lotus could argue that since the car has type approval and not single vehicle then the car is a road car - whether it can be used on track is beside the point - car come with number plates and road fund license, full lights etc - it is a road car that has track capabilities.

Caveat emptor I suppose - Ali, can you answer Greg's question?



Mac

[gorrie]

So... are you saying that if you want to do a standing start, if you hold the revs below 4.5K (say 4K), it won't register? ... cool...

I can see why they would need to protect themselves in the case of a car that has had rough love... things like clutch plates become consumables, and not really the type of thing that would be replaced under warranty if it had basically been worn out through use/misuse... However, they have advised that a securing pin has snapped within the clutch assembly... surely snapped=failed... so, failed surely=defected/not fit for purpose... ergo, defect=warranty claim. That would be my arguement certainly. I'm sure MMC will do all they can anyway.

If an engine mount had sheared would they say the same thing... "sorry, you've been doing standing starts"? It bugs me big time that manufacturers will give out all these stats about their cars and market them in a way that plays on 'sporting activities'.. and yet, should you try to emulate those stats/activities then you are penalised.

[Jamie84]

My old man was up at MMC today for a look at the damage . Asked him to take some pics but he forgot his camera

Got better description of what has happened though ....

I'll try my best here , Apparently the clutch plate and the pressure plate are held together by 3 retaining clips. well one of these clips has snapped , spun around the gearbox a few times at such a speed that it has punctured a hole right through into the gearbox housing , allowing the oil to pish out. This small bit of metal has created a hole the size of a pea and is now lodged somewere inside were the gearcogs are . Please correct me if any of this sounds guff .

My dad has an engineering background and mostly worked with metal. He described it as "metal fatigue" and cant understand how any sort of abuse could cause this fault.

I may add that the clutch is not worn at all and was described by John at MMC as immaculate.


Neil called today and said as it stands they are not issuing a new box , but he is trying to help.

He gave the guys at MMC the go ahead to strip the box further , find the bit of metal and inspect the condition of the box, this diagnosis as he described it , would be paid for by Lotus.

My dad recons if the gearbox is ok inside he can sort it with a spot wield.

other options are to order a new gearbox housing only, or just pay up for new box.

Neil also told me he was wrong about his estimate of 3K for a new box and it was infact much more , he didnt tell me how much but described it as a "scary figure" and said he hopes it can be resolved some other way, But at the moment no new box.

Also called the guy whom i bought it from and he was very supportive , he is gonna call the garage were he got it ( Nick Whale i think) as apparently thy had the car for quite a period before selling it . Who knows maybe i can bounce the blame back round to lotus.

Stressed out .


Any of you technical minded folk got any other thoughts on this , may add I have used a fair few of your points in this fight so far .

Thanks guys .

[steve_weegie]

any way peeps can get the diagnostic or ECU software on a laptop and plug into a car for scrutinising before purchase?

I believe that all the cool lotus specific stuff comes out the ECU talking somthing other than standard OBD... Without knowing how to decode it or how to get the ecu to send the relevant data, you're stuffed.

Cheers,

Steve

[ikarl]

I'm very surprised that they consider 6 'emergency' starts abuse!

I could understand if you were doing it everyday.............but 6!!??

In the past i owned an s13 200sx, and tbh I drove it like an absolute arse . Just about any chance i had, I'd accelerate like i stole it (i.e. revs at 5-6K -- drop clutch) and i also used to do a small amount of drifting in it...........yeah the clutch went, but the gearbox was fine.....like you'd expect

I own a VX, so I know nothing about MMC, but is it possible to ask them to put in writing what they consider abuse for a 'track orientated' sports car? if not MMC, any other specialist?
May help if you advise them (Lotus) that you're seeking legal help, if they sell a car that has suffered (quite seriously in my opinion) a failure because it cannot do what they sell it to do (hope this makes sense)

FFS, these are cars that are designed to be cared for, but not wrapped up in the preverbial cotton wool

my 2p worth

[Jamie84]

totally undertstand what you are saying ikarl, to be honest its out of MMCs hands now they are doing there best but its all down to lotus HQ i am affraid.


Anyway my dad is gonna press on with the whole thing tomorow , i simply do not have the time during the day .

Gonna call nick whale , its had 2 owners previous to me , the first bought it from them and it had 2k on the clock dunno how this worked , maybe it was a demo car or summit , if so this could be good ammo.

[jj]

I would have thought that Nick Whale will be unable to help to be honest; you want to talk to Lotus direct and concentrate on getting them to pay for it, because NW and the prev owner arent.

For what its worth, my car was an ex-demo plus2 owners, and when I sold it at 25K miles after a few trackdays and generally using and abusing it and absolutely nothing had ever broken. Kenny has used his car on track way more than I did and his has been similarly trouble free, so they can take the abuse unless something breaks because of a defect which is the angle I`d be pressing for in your shoes.