Syria.

[j2 lot]

A simple answer to that question ... Religous brainwashing, obviously there are other factors involved but that is the main one, radical beliefs.

This Youtube video here is well worth a watch, absolutely certain to spark some debate im sure!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... BDqzmG-rH8

Had to stop watching, arrogant annoying twat spouting racist crap

[Corranga]

Great discussion with some fresh ideas. I don't know enough about the whole topic to have generated my own views, but of course a route cause analysis approach seems to be the best plan, and, depending on the problem, the answers are often very obvious.

For me, the problem is the number of people who die needlessly in transportation. Sure, the war is the real cause, but ending that quickly and easily seems out of the question for now.
The refugee camp plan sounds like a great idea, though I doubt the EU governments / UN would fund it. Much easier to look good being a government who funds rescue missions than to plough money into making a proper solution, and every year is an election year as people continue to die needlessly

[Kelvin]

The refugee camp is a great idea. The challenge is that they are very difficult to do properly. The current camps are often run by factions broadly split by religious allegiance which also means that minorities don't fair well in them. They are also infilitrated by IS. And, they are bloody huge with poor living conditions and sanitation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaatari_refugee_camp

This camp held something like 80,000-90,000 people.

The situation is a humanitarian disaster of Global proportions and the only solution is to go in hard and wipe IS out of the Middle East to try and restore some kind of stability and this certainly means backing Assad. However, our history of success in recent decades at achieving this with other groups is frankly awful. I don't envy any of the decision makers in this.

[neil]

Here's an excellent explanation for anyone who's confused by what's going on

[Mikie711]

Two guys I work with are Syrian. Now, when I phone home of an evening it is to talk with the wife about what's going on etc etc nothing earth shattering. When one of these guys, who are brothers btw, phoned home he found out that one of his other brothers had been killed, his house has been bombed but thankfully his family had been out and already moved to a safer (read not safe but safer) location, it kinda puts things into perspective.
What they want is an end to hostilities and a chance to return home. One of there brothers has already re-located to Egypt I think but the other still has to travel back to Syria every trip. Now getting a visa to return to work is, shall we say, a challenge that takes him about 2 weeks every time. The last thing on his or the rest of his families mind is leaving their country but their position is becoming increasingly more dangerous as the conflict tears through the region they lived in.
I really do feel for them and they are just caught up in someone else's fight.
So yes we should help these people, but I side with Graeme in that they should be as close to home as is practical and safe as it is unlikely the whole family will have made it out together. Oh and their families are much, much larger than your average British family, I think Huesani as 7 brothers and at least a couple of sisters.

[robin]

I guess the Hungarians agree with Graeme, Mike et al:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34272765

Personally I continue to be uncomfortable with this stance.

Kelvin - you and I rarely disagree about anything - but I disagree that the right solution is for "us" to "go in hard and wipe out IS". I would actually support such an idea if I thought it had the first chance of succeeding, but it doesn't. Worse, the more you kill, the more you fuel the fire. I believe that the only solution will be a diplomatic one and that we must engage with the people that form the pools from which the radicals draw support and even engage with the radicals and IS leaders themselves. I also believe that if the factions cannot live together, it is for the people to decide that the factions are idiots (which they surely are - look at the stuff they disagree about and are willing to die for - come on guys, get a grip) and rise above them. Why is it that in the UK terrorism has been a constant presence but has never destabilised our country? It's because most people think that supporting a democracy is a better way to live, regardless of how disappointed you may be by how things have turned out this year or even this decade.

We need to put pressure on our allies in the region (even Assad and Rouhani) to support a move to democracy and (in all probability) a secular state.

Cheers,
Robin

[tut]

Agree that would be the ideal solution Robin, but as usual opposing factions will not talk or try and reach a compromise situation. Each believes that they are right and will not tolerate any other contingent. Israel and Palestine is a prime example going back decades and still no closer to a solution.

When religion, Sects, tribes, come into the equation it is virtually a no win situation and diplomacy does not seem to be getting anywhere, give and take are not part of the vocabulary.

tut

[campbell]

People need to watch Fergal Keane's report on BBC news at ten tonight.

[robin]

Agree that would be the ideal solution Robin, but as usual opposing factions will not talk or try and reach a compromise situation. Each believes that they are right and will not tolerate any other contingent. Israel and Palestine is a prime example going back decades and still no closer to a solution.

When religion, Sects, tribes, come into the equation it is virtually a no win situation and diplomacy does not seem to be getting anywhere, give and take are not part of the vocabulary.

tut

Tut, that is a poor argument. You suggest that we wage an unwinnable war because talking won't win ... and as far as I can tell there has been NO attempt at diplomacy so it's a bit early to be writing it off. It is clear to me that failing to win by fighting is worse than failing to win by talking.

To put it in context, the Northern Ireland peace process started in earnest AFTER the first gulf war; that peace process is not finished and is perhaps fragile, but how many years of peace have we had? Quite a few. The intransigence and religious dogma were as strong on both sides of that "argument" as they are in Iraq and Syria today. Even if we have another Iraq style war in which we colonise all of Iraq, Syria and half of north Africa all we will create is a huge bed of "terrorists" (see post-war Iraq & Afghanistan) that will require suppression and the steady loss of life, civilian and military. In other words all your war will produce is the Northern Ireland of the 60s, 70s and 80s but on a huge scale. Such military colonisation will fuel the fire of the radicals and those that radicalise others; and you will still need to resolve the situation diplomatically, in the end. Not to mention it will cost $100billion to "win" such a war.

Now I realise that there is a world of difference between the situation in Northern Ireland and that in Syria and Iraq today - but it shows that talking can work and I think we've pretty well established that us waging war on "them" has not resolved a thing. So why not spend our next $10billion on talking ...

Cheers,
Robin

[tut]

I never mentioned that we should carry on with War or Intervention Robin, I am all in favour of Diplomacy and wish that was the answer, but it rarely works with extreme opposites. I was in NI in 1970 when the IRA attacks started and it was thirty years before an agreement was reached. At present it looks as if it could be going backwards again.

I am starting to think that the best option now is too let them get on with it themselves and sort their own Countries out, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Maybe not very Christian, but then again they have plenty to answer for from past history.

tut

[BigD]

Watched the programme last night about the Brits fighting in Syria against ISIS at the moment. Pretty eye opening.