Grangemouth petrochemical plant to close

[j2 lot]

I hope wee Eck isn't going to try and claim responsibility for this...

.

He doesnt need to when the press do it for him
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/c ... i.22524694

No prizes for guessing who this journo supports come the independance referendum

[Scuffers]

what a load of crap!

[mckeann]

Hearing a lot about these 'other conditions' but no one seems to be willing to tell us what they are. The contract has been in the hand of the press for some time now, so if they're that bad, why haven't they published them? The reason, I suspect, is that they are well within the norm for a workforce today and would be a bit of a non story.

Glad to see the whole episode sorted and hope the group of workers who brought this about have been brought back to the reality that most of us have been living with over the last few years.

Twat

[sendmyusername]

Think the union has had the company over a barrel for so long, that they failed to see the change coming.
Did the same thing with ncr in dundee.

[kenny]

Hearing a lot about these 'other conditions' but no one seems to be willing to tell us what they are. The contract has been in the hand of the press for some time now, so if they're that bad, why haven't they published them? The reason, I suspect, is that they are well within the norm for a workforce today and would be a bit of a non story.

Glad to see the whole episode sorted and hope the group of workers who brought this about have been brought back to the reality that most of us have been living with over the last few years.

Twat

Seems like a reasonable statement to me, not really sure why you think he is a twat. Perhaps you can explain what this means to you in real world terms or perhaps put a monetary value against your newfound hardship Ape?
What we talking about here? Only 8 foreign holidays next year instead of 9?

Hard times ahead indeed.

[campbell]

Hearing a lot about these 'other conditions' but no one seems to be willing to tell us what they are. The contract has been in the hand of the press for some time now, so if they're that bad, why haven't they published them? The reason, I suspect, is that they are well within the norm for a workforce today and would be a bit of a non story.

Glad to see the whole episode sorted and hope the group of workers who brought this about have been brought back to the reality that most of us have been living with over the last few years.

Twat

Neil, I understand the strength of feeling and the perceived level of misinformation - but I think this is a in the abusive posts territory. As Kenny has asked, perhaps you can elaborate a bit more instead, so that we can understand better.

thanks

[mckeann]

Hearing a lot about these 'other conditions' but no one seems to be willing to tell us what they are. The contract has been in the hand of the press for some time now, so if they're that bad, why haven't they published them? The reason, I suspect, is that they are well within the norm for a workforce today and would be a bit of a non story.

Glad to see the whole episode sorted and hope the group of workers who brought this about have been brought back to the reality that most of us have been living with over the last few years.

Twat

Seems like a reasonable statement to me, not really sure why you think he is a twat. Perhaps you can explain what this means to you in real world terms or perhaps put a monetary value against your newfound hardship Ape?
What we talking about here? Only 8 foreign holidays next year instead of 9?

Hard times ahead indeed.

Thanks for understanding Kenny.

My holiday lifestyle has less to do with my job and more to do with a frugal home life.

My house was 60k, 10 year ago, so I have a 35k mortgage. My car (my only car) was 6k. I don't have any credit card loans, I don't smoke, drink very often or do drugs. I don't go to the pub on a Friday night and spend 100 quid. I don't buy expensive clothes, watches, or anything tbh.


Yet I get a sh*t load of stick from people. Those same people who have expensive lifestyles but moan that I get paid too much coz I go on holiday too often. My holidays are all sporting/hobby things. I spend 3 days on track in Spain, I fly out the night before and home the morning after. One of the reasons I do it is because its cheaper than driving to brands hatch 3 times.

I'm not going to waste my time explaining what the new terms mean to me, to (some) people that only seem to care because they though I was too well off. Jealousy is an ugly trait.

[mckeann]

And it's 11 holidays

[jason]

Hearing a lot about these 'other conditions' but no one seems to be willing to tell us what they are. The contract has been in the hand of the press for some time now, so if they're that bad, why haven't they published them? The reason, I suspect, is that they are well within the norm for a workforce today and would be a bit of a non story.

Glad to see the whole episode sorted and hope the group of workers who brought this about have been brought back to the reality that most of us have been living with over the last few years.

Twat

Neil, I understand the strength of feeling and the perceived level of misinformation - but I think this is a in the abusive posts territory. As Kenny has asked, perhaps you can elaborate a bit more instead, so that we can understand better.

thanks

I normally don't get involved in threads like this - they often don't end well, and it's easier to just lurk and read all the differing opinion! - but when I see an SE member abused for no apparent good reason, frankly it just makes me (and maybe others) lose interest in being empathetic. It ends up, I'm sure unintentionally, looking like a caricature of all the negatives much of the public feel about unions' approach sometimes... that sense of threat.

This is a discussion forum. Not everyone will hold the same opinion, but they should be allowed to debate it without fear of abuse (with obvious caveats). That's a fundamental right, surely. Frankly, I'm surprised your insult is still there for us (and David) to read and quote.

In support of David, there's nothing he wrote that is unreasonable based on what information is out there. Especially while these much-hinted other conditions remain a mystery to joe public. What are we supposed to do, not hold personal opinions and just nod our heads in ignorant subservience?

I don't know you, Neil, so have absolutely no knowledge of, or interest in, your lifestyle. I wouldn't think what folk are posting here is anything to do with jealousy over individuals - its about the politics surely?

/2p

[kenny]

No jealousy from me, I don't begrudge anyone whatever they earn, it's just a wee light hearted dig that acknowledges you are not exactly on the breadline, but in case you haven't noticed public sympathy on this one isn't very high, so when you post a single word 'twat' response to what is the reality for many people it touches a nerve.

[David]

I don't want to inflame this, but most of us have suffered over recent years. My own example (and I work for what some would consider to be one of the best employers in the UK) is that we lost our final salary pension 3 years ago, effectively had a pay freeze since 2008, and, for many of us, overtime is now unpaid. Many benefits such as a child creche, free training, holidays, through to travel and overnight expenses have long since gone or been reduced. We've faced round after round of redundancies (I was made redundant and had to take a demotion) and many colleagues face a 20% cut in pay (yes 20%!!!) this coming year as many of the union negotiated structures are dismantled.

On the plus side it has allowed those with skills and talent to flourish as freelancers - they are in demand, and can demand the rates they want. The employer is happy to pay when the work is there and, without the high overheads, the accountants are happy too. And in a holistic sense, it has allowed the organisation to provide better value for money - in fact it can be quite alarming to look back and see how much money was wasted paying staff for unnecessary tasks and services.

The bottom line is: If you are worth it, the employer will do what's required to keep you. If you are not happy with what's on offer then it's time to move on and work for someone else offering a better deal. If you are unable to do that then there's little alternative but to accept the reality of the situation you are in.

[Scuffers]

it would be nice to know the actual impact of the changes without the rhetoric....

going on what's in the public domain, I am struggling to see it from any other angle apart from Unite being blindingly stupid/arrogant.

[pete]

I'm always somewhat at a loss to read/hear folk expressing an opinion which is summed up as "my Ts&Cs have been screwed over the last few years - it's about time others were screwed too."

To put it somewhat more poetically - "my candle was already blown out, yours should be too."

It is acceptable for someone to have a job with security, when they attempt to defend that job they do not always deserve to be castigated. It is not the workers, or indeed the citizens of this country who are responsible for the mess the economy is in, yet when small groups of individuals attempt to make a fight the majority of the press (and the internet) side with the employers, believing that all other workers are lazy, workshy scoundrels who deserve their employee benefits cut to the benefit of the employer.


To read on here, of all places, opinions which can be summed up as "You appear to have enough money".

Mind boggling.

[fd]

Quite, even more bizarre is the expectation that Neil should publish his employment T&C on here so that the self appointed can make a judgement on him.

Just what gives any of these people the right to ask for this information, and further what makes them think they have ANY right to judge Neil (and presumably everybody else at Grangemouth), as they clearly do ?

Perhaps someone can explain who elevated them to this lofty position ?

Fd

[David]

I'm always somewhat at a loss to read/hear folk expressing an opinion which is summed up as "my Ts&Cs have been screwed over the last few years - it's about time others were screwed too."

Pete, I think that is a very valid point and had I read your post first I would have re-thought my post. But in my second paragraph, I was trying to make point that often painful changes can be also be good, and do offer new opportunities. My guess would be that most of the workers will look back on this with disbelief in five years time, with many of them being better off than they otherwise would have been.

Furgus, Neil's T&C's don't bother me, but if he cited them as a reason for the dispute in this thread then is is only natural that people will want to know what they are to make a judgement. If he then wishes not to disclose them that's fine - but why say it in the first place as it makes his case a bit hollow.