Just had an off, need help

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:29 pm

the normal brakes were fine on my Elise when i got it, and only suffered in the wet, and were sh*t on track.

Pagid R4-2's are awesome though. I'm not going to be purchasing anything else.

PhilA · Post by **PhilA** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:35 pm

Andy,

do u put any stuff on ur brakes to stop the rattling?
ive not bothered - the rattling doesnt bother me sound-wise - but dunno if its bad for the calipers or not

Cheers
Phil

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:51 pm

PhilA wrote:Andy,

do u put any stuff on ur brakes to stop the rattling?
ive not bothered - the rattling doesnt bother me sound-wise - but dunno if its bad for the calipers or not

Cheers
Phil

I've had them squeek, but not rattle?

They've taken an awful lot of abuse though, Awesome performance!

mac · Post by **mac** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:03 pm

Bada Bing! wrote:
mac wrote:If you skidded then the brakes where working - it was the interface between brain-pedal-tyre-road that failed.

Mac
Agreed, but I have found recently that doing emergency stops at speeds around say 40 or 50mph the brakes are ruddy useless unless they're warm. If I apply the same pressure when they're warm at motorway speeds, the pedal firms up and I get that satisfying feedback through the pedal as the car comes to a stop very quickly.

I just need to bear in mind that unless I'm working my brakes as well as I'm working the engine, then I may not stop in time.

When you say useless - can you still lock the wheels? Or is it they lock at differing pedal presure.

This is one thing that Walshy days are great for - learning how to brake in an non assisted car and practicing emergency stops/hard braking which most folk don't.

Cheers

Mac

Post by **simon** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:08 pm

mac wrote:This is one thing that Walshy days are great for - learning how to brake in an non assisted car and practicing emergency stops/hard braking which most folk don't.

Cheers

Mac

Like I said, that was the one thing that I can say has made a difference to my road driving. Shug, I'm not missing the point in what you're saying but my point is that for road driving, excluding what others may or may not do, the only thing I have found particularly useful is the braking. That's my opinion on it and if I was to do another (and I would if he ever comes up here again) I would go into it with improving my track driving as my goal.

p.s. Mac, 111R = ABS + servo

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:18 pm

In general, Walshy days should only improve trackday driving.
You shouldnt be driving on public roads at excessive speeds to need these sort of skills.

Oh course, kettle/black and all that...

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:05 pm

Gareth wrote:In general, Walshy days should only improve trackday driving.
You shouldnt be driving on public roads at excessive speeds to need these sort of skills.

Oh course, kettle/black and all that...

sorry but thats total bollox. Walshy's motivation for doing these courses is to stop people crashing and dieing in accidents. simple as that. to make you a safer driver on the road, as at some point you will overstep the mark wether it be due to weather conditions, your own misjudgement or someone elses mistake. simple as that. if it makes you a quicker driver on track in the process then brilliant, but thats not his reasons for doing it

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:05 am

With Mckeen on this one.

His days are about all round car control, and a genial insight in to why your car handles the way it does and how to manipulate it to do what you want it to do. A lot of that is regardless of pace.

Ultimately, if that helps you in the process to be able to drive your car more effectively then you'd hope you'd be quicker whether on track or wherever, but more in control.

Post by **Shug** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:28 am

Gareth wrote:In general, Walshy days should only improve trackday driving.
You shouldnt be driving on public roads at excessive speeds to need these sort of skills.

Oh course, kettle/black and all that...

Worth pointing out that the reason Walshy started teaching in the first place was that his brother (IIRC) was killed in a road crash and he wanted to teach performance techniques for safety.

Please don't think you go on a Walshy day to go quicker on the road - that's about as far from the point as it gets.....

Post by **Shug** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:38 am

simon wrote:
mac wrote:This is one thing that Walshy days are great for - learning how to brake in an non assisted car and practicing emergency stops/hard braking which most folk don't.

Cheers

Mac
Like I said, that was the one thing that I can say has made a difference to my road driving. Shug, I'm not missing the point in what you're saying but my point is that for road driving, excluding what others may or may not do, the only thing I have found particularly useful is the braking. That's my opinion on it and if I was to do another (and I would if he ever comes up here again) I would go into it with improving my track driving as my goal.

p.s. Mac, 111R = ABS + servo

Not going to drag this out, but you are missing the point mate.

Just because all you have used on the road so far is braking technique, doesn't mean that's all you've learned.

Come back and tell me that the lessons about weight and steering input haven't helped, when some fcukwit has pulled out on you and you have to swerve in the wet. A lot of people with no training would put it in a wall - hopefully your experience with Walshy has equipped you to deal with it properly.

If you want to concentrate on track driving with him, its what he'll teach you - the majority of people do. I guess that's why it's more track and speed focused now. That doesn't mean that's all he teaches - if you're more interested in road stuff, mention it to him - I'm sure he can shift the focus of what he's doing with you.

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:47 am

Shug wrote:
Gareth wrote:In general, Walshy days should only improve trackday driving.
You shouldnt be driving on public roads at excessive speeds to need these sort of skills.

Oh course, kettle/black and all that...

Please don't think you go on a Walshy day to go quicker on the road - that's about as far from the point as it gets.....

Ok, rightfully flamed but what Shug has just said was the point I was trying to get out

Post by **Shug** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:02 am

shooomer wrote:
PhilA wrote:Andy,

do u put any stuff on ur brakes to stop the rattling?
ive not bothered - the rattling doesnt bother me sound-wise - but dunno if its bad for the calipers or not

Cheers
Phil
Mintex make anti rattle pads you can stick between the brake pad + piston. I used them on the CSL and probably still have some in the garage if you want to try them.
Paul

Lotus do them as well if you've not got any left - they actually work (unlike the Eliseparts ones) and only cost pennies...

Bada Bing! · Post by **Bada Bing!** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:06 am

mac wrote:
Bada Bing! wrote:
mac wrote:If you skidded then the brakes where working - it was the interface between brain-pedal-tyre-road that failed.

Mac
Agreed, but I have found recently that doing emergency stops at speeds around say 40 or 50mph the brakes are ruddy useless unless they're warm. If I apply the same pressure when they're warm at motorway speeds, the pedal firms up and I get that satisfying feedback through the pedal as the car comes to a stop very quickly.

I just need to bear in mind that unless I'm working my brakes as well as I'm working the engine, then I may not stop in time.
When you say useless - can you still lock the wheels? Or is it they lock at differing pedal presure.

This is one thing that Walshy days are great for - learning how to brake in an non assisted car and practicing emergency stops/hard braking which most folk don't.

Cheers

Mac

Yep, the wheels will still lock (then ABS unlocks them), it could be ABS is too premature at low speeds actually. The car just goes on for far longer than it should if I jam on the anchors at speeds below 40 or 50.

Post by **Shug** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:12 am

Bada Bing! wrote:
mac wrote:
Bada Bing! wrote: Agreed, but I have found recently that doing emergency stops at speeds around say 40 or 50mph the brakes are ruddy useless unless they're warm. If I apply the same pressure when they're warm at motorway speeds, the pedal firms up and I get that satisfying feedback through the pedal as the car comes to a stop very quickly.

I just need to bear in mind that unless I'm working my brakes as well as I'm working the engine, then I may not stop in time.
When you say useless - can you still lock the wheels? Or is it they lock at differing pedal presure.

This is one thing that Walshy days are great for - learning how to brake in an non assisted car and practicing emergency stops/hard braking which most folk don't.

Cheers

Mac
Yep, the wheels will still lock (then ABS unlocks them), it could be ABS is too premature at low speeds actually. The car just goes on for far longer than it should if I jam on the anchors at speeds below 40 or 50.

That's technique then. You're being to aggressive and slamming them - letting the ABS do the work. That's not what it's there for - it's a safety net. The ABS will stop you in a longer distance than proper threshold braking (braking to the point of ABS kicking in, without it actually doing so) ABS is there to let you steer in what would be a lockup situation, not to slow you quicker than correct braking. That's magnified in a light car like the Elise.

I

Post by **simon** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:21 am

Shug wrote:Lotus do them as well if you've not got any left - they actually work (unlike the Eliseparts ones) and only cost pennies...

Not true I'm afraid, they cost a tenner for 4 sticky bits of rubber!

I know what you're saying about the control and yes you could maybe say I'm missing the point but you are missing mine too! My point is that Walshy doesn't teach you to be a safer road driver. He helps give you the control to recover once you've fcuk it up, whether that's your own fault or brought on by someone elses actions. I'm quite conscious of my surroundings when I drive e.g. I move to the middle of the road when I pass junctions in case something pulls out. Defensive driving and avoiding the situations that may cause you to lose control are what make you a safer road driver IMO, not just the ability to fix it once you've gone beyond the limit.

I don't drive anywhere near the limit of my car on the road and I personally don't want to be anywhere near anyone that does, regardless of how many Walshy days they've done. If that makes me slower as a road driver, I don't care, I'm still enjoying it and at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.