Just had an off, need help

Post by **Shug** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:12 pm

Sheet.

Sorry to hear this mate. As you're going the insurance route - probably for the best. Would be scary money to fix yourself and you'd have the hassle of getting off the old crash structure and bonding on a new one.

http://www.carlimits.com

Bada Bing! · Post by **Bada Bing!** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:22 pm

That's the really annoying thing it was such a low speed, low commitment accident. The brakes just weren't able to stop in time, so I skidded onto the grass.

mac · Post by **mac** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:23 pm

If you skidded then the brakes where working - it was the interface between brain-pedal-tyre-road that failed.

Mac

Post by **Shug** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:27 pm

Bada Bing! wrote:That's the really annoying thing it was such a low speed, low commitment accident. The brakes just weren't able to stop in time, so I skidded onto the grass.

Yup - they are always the ones. Same deal with my off at Cadwell. Point being that the Elise is light and you gotta manage the weight properly - at low speed, the fronts can have very little grip - on the 111R, that could mean premature ABS kick in and massive increase in stopping distance. Stopping distance will be greater even if the ABS doesn't kick in.

The suggestion for carlimits (Walshy) isn't a comment on your driving - but every single Elise owner could benefit from getting to know the car properly. It's telling that 2 of the really quick guys on here rate what he does - Mckeann has used him several times and it shows in his driving, where Gordon just drives quickly from feel, but readily admits he can't explain the theory behind it.

You will spend no better money on making yourself quicker and safer at the same time.....

Post by **simon** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:49 pm

This is probably going to be a controversial statment but I don't think it really helps you all that much on the road. Yes, it greatly improves your driving on track but if you drive the same way on the road as you do on track, you are going to crash sooner or later.

The only thing that I think I have used on the road is braking later but a lot harder than I used to. All the slip angle and rotational steering stuff is great but it's very much track biased IMO.

I'm also glad I didn't do what the selcock crowd always say and do driver training immediately. I don't think I'd have gotten as much out of it if I hadn't known my car first.

Post by **Shug** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:59 pm

simon wrote:This is probably going to be a controversial statment but I don't think it really helps you all that much on the road. Yes, it greatly improves your driving on track but if you drive the same way on the road as you do on track, you are going to crash sooner or later.

The only thing that I think I have used on the road is braking later but a lot harder than I used to. All the slip angle and rotational steering stuff is great but it's very much track biased IMO.

I'm also glad I didn't do what the selcock crowd always say and do driver training immediately. I don't think I'd have gotten as much out of it if I hadn't known my car first.

Hmmmm. Definately don't agree about it not helping on road. You may never have had the case to use it, but if you've been in a situation where the car is almost out of control before (ie on the walshy day) and you are taught how to correct it - that stays in the subconscious. If it doesn't, you didn't learn it right.

You don't have to be driving like an idiot to have something come at you unexpectedly and have to avoid crashing the car by using correct technique.

Post by **simon** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:27 pm

I agree it does stick and I use the rotational steering pretty often and know how to adjust the car on the throttle or with the brakes to prevent it from sliding (doesn't mean I can always do it but I know what I should be doing at least!). However, I just don't drive to the point where I have ever needed to use any of that. I know that I have only ever experienced oversteer a few times on the road in the 2+ years I've owned it and most of those times it's because I've deliberately provoked it in the wet.

Maybe it's just me but I never drive to the point where I find myself out of control and while that probably makes me slower, I'd rather be slower and enjoy it instead of fast but on the edge of a disaster.

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:28 pm

totally agree with you shug. Its saved me from a few accidents, on road and track. That unsettling feeling where your cornering happily within your limits, and have to lift off / brake suddenly mid corner to avoid an obstacle is what his training is all about. Its not to make you quicker, its to make you safer.

As shug said, if you've exceded every limit before then it removes the element of surprise.

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:30 pm

simon wrote:I agree it does stick and I use the rotational steering pretty often and know how to adjust the car on the throttle or with the brakes to prevent it from sliding (doesn't mean I can always do it but I know what I should be doing at least!). However, I just don't drive to the point where I have ever needed to use any of that. I know that I have only ever experienced oversteer a few times on the road in the 2+ years I've owned it and most of those times it's because I've deliberately provoked it in the wet.

Maybe it's just me but I never drive to the point where I find myself out of control and while that probably makes me slower, I'd rather be slower and enjoy it instead of fast but on the edge of a disaster.

possibly because your driving smoother due to the training. or possibly (like i was) because you were scared of what would happen if it went qwrong, so didnt want to get near any limits.

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:35 pm

I reckon it helps on the road to, and makes you react in the appropriate manner more instinctively.

Having said that people will no doubt get varying amounts of benefit from a Walshy day, but the experiences for the less experienced must be worth their weight in gold.

Post by **Shug** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:42 pm

simon wrote: Maybe it's just me but I never drive to the point where I find myself out of control and while that probably makes me slower, I'd rather be slower and enjoy it instead of fast but on the edge of a disaster.

Missing the point mate. You can control how you drive, but not those who you sometimes have to avoid. Pootling along at 50mph is suddenly bloody quick if you have to avoid a myopic idiot from a blind exit, no?

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:47 pm

Have you taken to hiding in blind exits then <BG>

Post by **Shug** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:48 pm

Stephen wrote:Have you taken to hiding in blind exits then

My eyes work........ it's the rest of me that's knackered!

Bada Bing! · Post by **Bada Bing!** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:13 pm

mac wrote:If you skidded then the brakes where working - it was the interface between brain-pedal-tyre-road that failed.

Mac

Agreed, but I have found recently that doing emergency stops at speeds around say 40 or 50mph the brakes are ruddy useless unless they're warm. If I apply the same pressure when they're warm at motorway speeds, the pedal firms up and I get that satisfying feedback through the pedal as the car comes to a stop very quickly.

I just need to bear in mind that unless I'm working my brakes as well as I'm working the engine, then I may not stop in time.

Post by **Shug** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:18 pm

Bada Bing! wrote:
mac wrote:If you skidded then the brakes where working - it was the interface between brain-pedal-tyre-road that failed.

Mac
Agreed, but I have found recently that doing emergency stops at speeds around say 40 or 50mph the brakes are ruddy useless unless they're warm. If I apply the same pressure when they're warm at motorway speeds, the pedal firms up and I get that satisfying feedback through the pedal as the car comes to a stop very quickly.

I just need to bear in mind that unless I'm working my brakes as well as I'm working the engine, then I may not stop in time.

Sounds like you need to lob the pads then. The greens I use have a tendency to go off if you've thrashed them (say, a twisty road section) then let them cool (long straight, or sweepers) First time on the pedal again can focus the mind...

Reportedly, Padgid RS4-2s do not suffer from this and stop the car like you've hit a tree... Expensive though. (although not as expensive as a new front end....)

Stuff I said about training still counts, BTW.... You'll be safer and possibly even a bit quicker, taking less risks...