Independence SE Poll

[tut]

Religion and cultures, completely pointless arguing about them, but they can be discussed between consenting adults.

tut

[SAJ]

I was originally in the 'No' camp, but i'm in the 'Yes' camp these days. I was in the 'No' camp before looking into things myself. I'm honestly not sure what to believe sometimes but I'm always one for trying something new and well if it goes wrong then we can always do things to fix it.

[flyingscot68]

I was originally in the 'No' camp, but i'm in the 'Yes' camp these days. I was in the 'No' camp before looking into things myself. I'm honestly not sure what to believe sometimes but I'm always one for trying something new and well if it goes wrong then we can always do things to fix it.

Finally, someone who shares my opinion.
It's the only way to look at it a far as I'm concerned SAJ, nice one

Your last sentence is what I wish the the no people would take on board. We don't need all the arguing about currency, oil, defence etc. just a desire to make independence work for us. Everything can be fixed and there's always a different way to do things, they're all too stuck in the ways of the moment IMHO.
People seem to think everything will change overnight, that's wrong, it'll be a slow and gradual change.


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[Rosssco]

I guess people have vastly different view points (which is a good thing), as I have tried my best to understand and rationalise the case from the Yes people, and I have yet to really come up with any tangible benefits to it. Honestly.

I'm not talking about dreams of what we could do, but in the real, politically and socially gritty world that we live in. Yes or No, the vast majority of people will have moved on from this in a couple of years, and go back to the political malaise that so many people live in.

[Corranga]

I'm honestly not sure what to believe sometimes but I'm always one for trying something new and well if it goes wrong then we can always do things to fix it.

Your last sentence is what I wish the the no people would take on board. We don't need all the arguing about currency, oil, defence etc. just a desire to make independence work for us. Everything can be fixed and there's always a different way to do things, they're all too stuck in the ways of the moment IMHO.
People seem to think everything will change overnight, that's wrong, it'll be a slow and gradual change.

I think you are underestimating 'no people'. I am a strong enough 'No person' to know that my stance won't me moved by the current line of politicians that are touting Yes.

I also completely understand what you mean. I sincerely believe that Scotland CAN be an independent country, and succeed at it given time.
I see the risks and uncertainties and don't like them. It will be a gradual change, there will be a lot of negotiating to maintain a status quo in certain areas for the short term - pensions that would become cross-border, mortgages, bank accounts, currency, DVLA, BBC, things that no one has even thought about.. It only takes one of them to go wrong and it could be catastrophic.

I'm not wealthy enough to be in a position to move elsewhere if they really do cock it up, and I have a family to think about.
I also see benefits of being in Britain, and have family and friends in other parts of the UK, and I really don't see why things are so bad that we even need it.

Now, plenty of Yes voters will point me out as a pessimist, or scared of change, or whipped into a state of fear by those terrible Westminster lot, but the simple fact is that a No vote is a vote for something rational and understood.
Sure things will change, and this is where the Yes side will start their scaremongering on how much worse Scotland will become once Westminster realised they've captured us for another 50 years or how ever long it is until the next referendum. Funny, coming from the people who stand up and call No voters scared of change.

A Yes vote on the other hand is a vote for a single word. A word which is an idealism seemingly needs no tangible back up and that simply isn't good enough for me.

[Corranga]

I'm English so staying out of this one but....

I think your input would be equally interesting. An independent Scotland will effect what's left of the UK, and you hail from a part of England that's pretty much Scotland anyway right?

I don't think there has ever been a subject that polarizesopinions quite like it.

In an independent Scotland, are we to adopt American English as well?

Joking aside, I genuinely dislike the divide that the referendum has created. Scotland will never be the same. Given that Salmond wants to remain in a largr Union anyway - the European one, he should have pursued the devomax option back in the day..

[flyingscot68]

I think you are underestimating 'no people'.

I admit I should have put 'many' before no people.

I work in an office full of no's and the vast majority of them completely refuse to accept that any part of independence could work at all so please excuse me if I get a little frustrated.
The constant glass half empty attitude in here does get to me after a while. I must also add that there is definitely a football/religion/bigotry side to many of the no's at home (Glasgow), which just makes it worse.

I do appreciate your point of view, as an ex no I can see where you're coming from with some of it. Still don't agree though

Can't see how it could ever be 'cocked up' that bad that you would want to move country.

[tut]

I genuinely dislike the divide that the referendum has created. Scotland will never be the same.

Absolutely agree, this has/will create bad feelings between both factions whatever the outcome.

tut

[BigD]

I genuinely dislike the divide that the referendum has created. Scotland will never be the same.

Absolutely agree, this has/will create bad feelings between both factions whatever the outcome.

tut

This is one of the main reasons I am not for it, it's creating yet more division in what is a relatively small already divided (more so in some places) country. Surely we could have put all this energy (and money) into doing good. Like improving poverty in our own towns and cities or help those with illnesses that don't get much support?!

Instead of concentrating on our differences lets concentrate on and improve our similarities!

[GBOBM]

I'm not wealthy enough to be in a position to move elsewhere if they really do cock it up

Why do you need to be wealthy to move elsewhere?

Move house, get job elsewhere...........and that's it.

[Dominic]

I genuinely dislike the divide that the referendum has created. Scotland will never be the same.

Absolutely agree, this has/will create bad feelings between both factions whatever the outcome.

tut

This is one of the main reasons I am not for it, it's creating yet more division in what is a relatively small already divided (more so in some places) country. Surely we could have put all this energy (and money) into doing good. Like improving poverty in our own towns and cities or help those with illnesses that don't get much support?!

Instead of concentrating on our differences lets concentrate on and improve our similarities!

Yea! BigD for PM

[SAJ]

I was originally in the 'No' camp, but i'm in the 'Yes' camp these days. I was in the 'No' camp before looking into things myself. I'm honestly not sure what to believe sometimes but I'm always one for trying something new and well if it goes wrong then we can always do things to fix it.

Finally, someone who shares my opinion.
It's the only way to look at it a far as I'm concerned SAJ, nice one

Your last sentence is what I wish the the no people would take on board. We don't need all the arguing about currency, oil, defence etc. just a desire to make independence work for us. Everything can be fixed and there's always a different way to do things, they're all too stuck in the ways of the moment IMHO.
People seem to think everything will change overnight, that's wrong, it'll be a slow and gradual change.


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If we don't try we'll never know. One can try to predict the outcome as much as they like but they'll never actually know what will actually happen. The pursuit of immediate perfection is futile, but gradual steps towards perfection is a much more realistic goal.

Things wouldn't be perfect from day one and maybe not from year 3,4,5 but with enough intelligent people with the right attitude it could be made to work.

Fortune favours the bold

[Shug]

but with enough intelligent people with the right attitude it could be made to work.

And there's the rub. I have worked in a previous life with several local authorities and seen first hand the people we have in this country as politicians. And stared open-mouthed at some of the barely functioning human beings that are elected to office. Yes, I am saying I believe Westminster politicians to be of a better standard and that's the basic point. All a Yes vote does is substitute one group of elected idiots for a group of (IMO) lesser quality elected idiots - these are the people in whom we place our trust.

Nope.

[SAJ]

but with enough intelligent people with the right attitude it could be made to work.

And there's the rub. I have worked in a previous life with several local authorities and seen first hand the people we have in this country as politicians. And stared open-mouthed at some of the barely functioning human beings that are elected to office. Yes, I am saying I believe Westminster politicians to be of a better standard and that's the basic point. All a Yes vote does is substitute one group of elected idiots for a group of (IMO) lesser quality elected idiots - these are the people in whom we place our trust.

Nope.

Maybe the SE contingent should start their own political party

[Alistair]

but with enough intelligent people with the right attitude it could be made to work.

And there's the rub. I have worked in a previous life with several local authorities and seen first hand the people we have in this country as politicians. And stared open-mouthed at some of the barely functioning human beings that are elected to office. Yes, I am saying I believe Westminster politicians to be of a better standard and that's the basic point. All a Yes vote does is substitute one group of elected idiots for a group of (IMO) lesser quality elected idiots - these are the people in whom we place our trust.

Nope.

Couldn't agree more - I have pretty regular contact through work with Scottish Government stuff - the ability to pee substantial amounts of money up the wall for no gain is frightening - and all done through people in positions of authority that have little other than self preservation at heart from what I can see.