Paving advice needed (NLC)

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bertieduff
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Post by bertieduff » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:57 am

kerryxeg wrote:If its natural stone, they are usually in varying thicknesses and need to be on cement, to get it level but also to avoid cracking. Usually natural stone is pointed at the joints for a better finish but there are other methods. To get decent pointing you have to leave the correct gap.

For man made slabs of even thickness, it could be on sand or cement. If there is any sand in use it needs to be whacked (compacted) or you will endup with iceberg slabs silting in all directions and should have some form of edging.

Cement always takes longer but will give the best results and last longer if done correctly. If your pointing with brushed sand, its worth getting the proper kiln dried sand. This needs to be brushed over the stones then you run the whacker over the stones (obviously not for use on slabs) to get the sand to flow and lock the stones in place. You can also then put a resin over the whole lot which needs to be done immediately after. The resin soaks into the sand locks it in place for ever and also stops moss etc. I would not use sand between slabs, there is a high risk of it washing away over time, either flush is straight edged or point with cement.

I've done plenty projects and fixed a few cock-ups, but my neighbour is a proper landscaper and does it correctly (but he's in Aberdeen).

Kerry
:withstupid

As Old Riven is a reconstituted product it should be uniform thickness I'd have expected? (although I haven't used it personally to confirm). You could contact your local Bradstone rep if the guy argues over laying techniques- he should be happy to tell you their recommendations for laying to avoid debate, although I wouldn't mention initially the reason for your enquiry is a dispute perhaps. (Reps are generally busy/concentrating on selling and won't want dragged into disputes over small jobs. Usually know their stuff though and it's not a difficult question!)

Also some advice on http://www.bradstone.com/garden/advice/ ... aving.aspx which I assume you've checked already... :wink:

The one advantage of sand pointing/bedding is that it does drain surface water far more readily (although as Kerry says it does tend to wash away over time). It really only works well on a level, compacted substrate, and with a little maintenance every so often,but is not necessarily a bad thing.

(It is worth bearing in mind that part of the problem with the flooding we're seeing on the news is our interference with natural absorption features....)

PITA Craig- hope you get it sorted without too much stress. Don't back down if you're not happy, and don't pay! If he has to re-lay he will no-doubt be rather unhappy, but it's his mistake at the end of the day. Ain't rocket science laying a level patio, and if it looks bad now you can bet it'll look worse in a couple of years....
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craigieb
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Post by craigieb » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:18 pm

Shug wrote:This wouldn't be a good time to mention Polish builders then.....
:lol:
it's not the polish guys i have a problem with - it's the muppet running the show :x
Shug wrote:Sorry mate, couldn't resist. Hope you get it sorted as it doesn't sound like a cheap job at all :(
thanks shug. just under 7k all in (alot of other wok besides paving :cry: and i want it done right
bertieduff wrote:As Old Riven is a reconstituted product it should be uniform thickness I'd have expected? (although I haven't used it personally to confirm). You could contact your local Bradstone rep if the guy argues over laying techniques- he should be happy to tell you their recommendations for laying to avoid debate, although I wouldn't mention initially the reason for your enquiry is a dispute perhaps. (Reps are generally busy/concentrating on selling and won't want dragged into disputes over small jobs. Usually know their stuff though and it's not a difficult question!)

Also some advice on http://www.bradstone.com/garden/advice/ ... aving.aspx which I assume you've checked already... :wink:

The one advantage of sand pointing/bedding is that it does drain surface water far more readily (although as Kerry says it does tend to wash away over time). It really only works well on a level, compacted substrate, and with a little maintenance every so often,but is not necessarily a bad thing.

(It is worth bearing in mind that part of the problem with the flooding we're seeing on the news is our interference with natural absorption features....)

PITA Craig- hope you get it sorted without too much stress. Don't back down if you're not happy, and don't pay! If he has to re-lay he will no-doubt be rather unhappy, but it's his mistake at the end of the day. Ain't rocket science laying a level patio, and if it looks bad now you can bet it'll look worse in a couple of years....
thanks bert :D

bradstone have said that old riven will vary by up to 6mm from thinnest thickest slab, but some of mine are 12mm out! They also said they recommend laying it on a wet mix to minimise the height difference.
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Post by craigieb » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:53 pm

he finally turned up tonight well armed with excuses:

1. rain - quantity of that has fallen recently
2. size/thickness of slabs being uneven
3. size of area to be slabbed to big to get it level

he sending guys round tomorrow to fix it "to my satisfaction", however he disagreed with bradstone saying the slabs should be laid on a mortar bed.

I'm not convinced he has the skills/inclination to sort this "to my satisfaction" :cry: :evil:
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Post by minkypotglory » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:56 pm

Boot the cnut in the nuts.

Mags

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craigieb
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Post by craigieb » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:03 pm

minkypotglory wrote:Boot the cnut in the nuts.

Mags
lorna had to restrain me... more than once :twisted:
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Post by craigieb » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:11 pm

update

two guys round on monday night (not a spirit level in sight) and they have "fixed it", i.e. some of the slabs are not as bad, but levels are all over the place, groutings variable at best.

Had the owner on the phone today asking if I was happy - explained to him I was going to wait until I could walk on the slabs (3 days from laying was his recommendation which makes it thurs night). He agreed then said "and there's a problem with your cheque" and I told him I had stopped it and would pay him when the job's finished. It was like flicking a switch at this point - he went f*cking balistic, threatening to go round to the house this morning and lift the whole lot, called me dishonest, said he didn't think I had the money and that he wouldn't take another cheque off me if I was the last man on earth. Said if I didn't turn up with the cash today everything would be ripped up and he dump all the rubbish he removed from the garden back in.

This was spread over half a dozen phonecalls as I hung up on hime evry time he got abusive. So he then phoned Lorna and started bellowing at her down the phone, swearing at her etc. etc. Not on :evil:

So then Lorna phones me in a state "just pay him" frightened out of her wits.

Situation is now, I don't trust him , especially not to finish the job right. I'm away from home next week and the thought of Lorna alone in the house and this c*** turning up at some point doesn't even bear thinking about. I'm seriously considering paying him just so that I don't have to deal with him any more and getting someone else in to sort it. :(

So guess the question is... what would you do?

I f**kin HATE cowboys :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Cheers
Craig
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mac
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Post by mac » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:17 pm

you got a business card or any details of the guy?




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Post by jj » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:21 pm

Call his bluff, and invite him round to remove the whole lot, or tell him to wait until Thursday and you`ll pay him cash when he appears and apologises.

I have had a similar situation a few times with tradesmen / customers and invariably they find it easier to act the hard man down the phone than when they are standing in front of you. I wouldnt worry about it too much.

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Post by mac » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:24 pm

Craig,


You want my 2m straight edge for when he comes round?

you can either use it to show him the high/low spots for just ram it up his @rse (just clean it afterwards)



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Post by ed » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:26 pm

Ive got a bb bat you can borrow! He sounds like a tw@! Dont let him intimidate you!
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Post by RDH » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:35 pm

You can always get Trading Standards round to have a look! Get another contractor to have a look and give an opinion on it.

Don't go with Ed's BB idea! Aggravated assault springs to mind - unless you can get Lorna to stand holding a BB Glove and Ball.
:wink:

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craigieb
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Post by craigieb » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:42 pm

cheers guys

have considered trading standards and am getting another (better!) landscaper in to QA shortly.

frankly I'd be happier if he did rip it up, f*** off and I never see him again. It's the never seeing him again that intimidates me and more importantly Lorna.

Offer of straight edge, bb bat etc greatly appreciated :wink: :twisted:

my mate across the road is a not-to-be-messed with copper so he's coming over tonight with his brother when the cowboy arrives :D

The company is Mitchells Lanscaping Ltd, based in cumbernauld. No website....yet... but plenty domain name permutations left for sale :twisted:

cheers
craig
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MacK
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Post by MacK » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:50 pm

craigieb wrote: frankly I'd be happier if he did rip it up, f*** off and I never see him again.
Just tell him to do that.

craigieb wrote:my mate across the road is a not-to-be-messed with copper so he's coming over tonight with his brother when the cowboy arrives :D
Failing that give Noops a call :lol: or even better Mags :shock:
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Post by BigD » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:22 pm

MacK wrote:
craigieb wrote: frankly I'd be happier if he did rip it up, f*** off and I never see him again.
Just tell him to do that.
Yep, if he has been abusive I'd tell him to rip the whole lot up. He'll then try and back track I bet. It's already cost him money and will cost him even more to rip it up.

Trading standards is a good idea, although having used them in the past all they do is what you will probably do anyway by getting a second opinion.
Even if the slabs are different thicknesses they should not be sticking up in places. A dry mix of sharp sand and cement is OK for laying on but there must be a good bed of type 1 under that, (I would say at least 2 or 3 inches). As with everything it's the preparation that is key.

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Post by Titanium S1 111S (gla) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:38 pm

If you have a problem DROP me a PM. Happy to put your side of the story in lawyer spk. Having had considerable experience of these guys they tend to be all chat.
Graham

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