New Elise Sprint

[j2 lot]

and yes, I am a grumpy old man these days....

these days !

[campbell]

Simon your grumpiness is both noted and excused

Mark...Seeing which way a Golf R went in an Elise 1.6 is not really the point IMHO. The Evora NA is a brilliant car and bought 2nd hand, amazing VFM. It wouldn't see which way a Golf R went either. Especially in the rain...

When I bought my S1 in 1999 there were plenty other fast sure footed hatches that would give it a run for its money.

Lotus v mainstream is not really worth bothering about. You either love the ragtop turnip farmers' efforts or you don't.

[tut]

At least they are attempting to go in the direction of lightness again, but for me if I was buying it would not get a look in against a good, sensibly priced, original, early S1.

But then I am not an average Lotus new car buyer and that is who they have to cater for. I think it is only after you have worked your way through the models and upgrades over the years that you appreciate how good the original is. At the same time your driving has improved and you can make the most of the lower power output.

tut

[ryallm]

Mark...Seeing which way a Golf R went in an Elise 1.6 is not really the point IMHO. The Evora NA is a brilliant car and bought 2nd hand, amazing VFM. It wouldn't see which way a Golf R went either. Especially in the rain...

Of course you are right in some ways - the Elise has always been more about handling delicacy and driver involvement than outright pace. However, the point is that the whole market has moved on massively in performance but the base Elise really hasn't. In 1996 the hottest hot hatches had about 160bhp - now there any number of 300bhp+ hatchbacks, with Audi and Merc taking the game on to 400bhp. I expect the all new Elise will have at least a turbo 1.6 in the base car with over 200bhp, possibly with a hotter 2 litre turbo further up the range. It will be interesting to see where the engines come from though - any number of suitable lumps from GM, Ford or VW, but I am not sure what Toyota has available?

[Doc883]

The 1.6 Sprint hits 60 in 5.9 secounds, hardly going to set the world on fire as it's out hauled by a plethora of modern day hatchbacks and diesel load luggers.
Not really sure it has earnt the Sprint title.

[woody]

Toyota are launching a new generation of engines soon i think and a 1.8 SC Yaris, though I'm not sure what engine that's based on. What i cant understand (and the must be a reason contractual, tax, based on what Toyota will allow, CO2, compliance costs or other) is why Lotus stick with the 1.6. there are 1.8 and 2.0 versions of the engine family they use with not give amounts more power, up to ~160bhp but with usefully more torque. A range with NA 160bhp 2.0 and a 2.0 SC with say 250 and 270 bhp would be interesting and in theory at least not be difficult or expensive to do.You never know what is actually available to Lotus to use though.

They aside, i like the direction of the sprint if not all of the details. Like the facelift too. And while they aren't cheap I can understand why. My S1 was circa £30k in 2000. It didn't have airbags, a 3 year warranty or central locking or many other things even the base cars now offer.

[anthonyyule]

They have taken 40kg off the Elise 250 Cup, that should please buyers who have just bought one.

tut

Always been the same issue year on year tbh. It will be interesting to see if current Cup owners are able to purchase the upgraded light weight parts? I'd be interested in the rear screen for example. I have the Freno carbon discs and pads on order saving 15kg over OEM. Just fitted a 2bular which saved 5kg over OEM. So have 20kg saved. The aero kit when not in carbon weighs a fair bit tbh (rear diffuser is 7.6kg alone). Tony was wise to hold out for the carbon aero kit on his Cup.

the other bits I have such as carbon seats, lighter battery etc. Don't have carbon access panel or roll over cover.

Id be amazed if the headline 40kg refers to the Elise 250 Cup (or even the supercharged 220S to be honest). I think this is another example of Lotus marketing. Looking at the specification of mine (with carbon aero) against the available parts for the Sprint I cant see how we could get another 40kg out of the car.... the roll over hoop/ engine cover, access panel, transom, etc are all savings in grams. I think there will be a bigger weight saving in the brakes and the front bumper (but that's approx. 20kg over mine?) By the time all of the aero pack is added to the Cup its easily heavier than a standard 1.6 anyway...

I've already made an enquiry to Lotus regarding some of the additional carbon bits - and I hope - with the strength of interest on the 'net which the Sprint parts has generated, that Lotus can find a way through their supply chain to offer all of these upgrades to existing owners. I admit to feeling a little pi55ed last week at the news of a revised Elise only 10 weeks after I collected mine and Id love a bit of foresight by dealers to better inform customers of what might be coming through the pipes..... I knew nothing about the Exige 380 for example which would have been firmly on my radar.

Anyway. on the subject of lightness.......One thing which I got thinking about at the weekend.... the whole air-con discussion again. Necessary to demist the windscreen - but a penalty of approx. 15-18kg. Could Lotus not develop a heated windscreen with elements instead? Surely the electrics would be substantially lighter than the a/c gubbins? (and potentially less likely to - or easier to - break/ fix?)

[woody]

There are aftermarket heated screens available, Junks had a run made iirc.

[Shug]

Also - a reasonable amount of cars sold in the far east, so the HVAC stuff does need the AC element - and the more variation introduced to spec, the more complicated it is to make.

[douglasgdmw]

Although no longer a Lotus owner, their release of models updates has been pretty swift of late. While that is relatively good on one hand I would suspect that most owners are getting a little tee'd off at being trumped once they have their new car. Its supposed to be a pleasurable experience and not leave you with sour grapes.

I can remember when a new elise variant usually meant a new colour scheme however

I know its about getting revenue in the door for minimal development cost (which is a good thing for Lotus) but hope this cycle calms down once the brand new elise is launched and they follow a more normal 2 year upgrade cycle like their competitors.

[tenkfeet]

They have taken 40kg off the Elise 250 Cup, that should please buyers who have just bought one.

tut

Always been the same issue year on year tbh. It will be interesting to see if current Cup owners are able to purchase the upgraded light weight parts? I'd be interested in the rear screen for example. I have the Freno carbon discs and pads on order saving 15kg over OEM. Just fitted a 2bular which saved 5kg over OEM. So have 20kg saved. The aero kit when not in carbon weighs a fair bit tbh (rear diffuser is 7.6kg alone). Tony was wise to hold out for the carbon aero kit on his Cup.

the other bits I have such as carbon seats, lighter battery etc. Don't have carbon access panel or roll over cover.

Id be amazed if the headline 40kg refers to the Elise 250 Cup (or even the supercharged 220S to be honest). I think this is another example of Lotus marketing. Looking at the specification of mine (with carbon aero) against the available parts for the Sprint I cant see how we could get another 40kg out of the car.... the roll over hoop/ engine cover, access panel, transom, etc are all savings in grams. I think there will be a bigger weight saving in the brakes and the front bumper (but that's approx. 20kg over mine?) By the time all of the aero pack is added to the Cup its easily heavier than a standard 1.6 anyway...

I've already made an enquiry to Lotus regarding some of the additional carbon bits - and I hope - with the strength of interest on the 'net which the Sprint parts has generated, that Lotus can find a way through their supply chain to offer all of these upgrades to existing owners. I admit to feeling a little pi55ed last week at the news of a revised Elise only 10 weeks after I collected mine and Id love a bit of foresight by dealers to better inform customers of what might be coming through the pipes..... I knew nothing about the Exige 380 for example which would have been firmly on my radar.

Anyway. on the subject of lightness.......One thing which I got thinking about at the weekend.... the whole air-con discussion again. Necessary to demist the windscreen - but a penalty of approx. 15-18kg. Could Lotus not develop a heated windscreen with elements instead? Surely the electrics would be substantially lighter than the a/c gubbins? (and potentially less likely to - or easier to - break/ fix?)

Did you get a response about upgrades? Lotus cannot get parts for their current cars let alone new.

I thought Ford holds the patent for heated front windscreens with electrical elements hense why it features mainly on their cars and Volvos.

[anthonyyule]

I think the patent has expired with Ford now....our Skoda and Mini both have heated screens.

No response from Lotus. I remain optimistic... but I concur... their supply chain sometimes struggles so who knows what (if anything) they will offer. Did McLaren not offer a free update/ upgrade package for the last of the MC12 when it brought out the 650S? - I remember at the time the Press were particularly impressed with this move which showed a good degree of respect to its existing customer base. Not that I'm suggesting that Lotus should give away parts for free.... but at least acknowledging the demand for such items and allowing them to be purchased and fitted at a fair price would be a good step in the right direction I think (and leave everybody feeling warm and fuzzy about the purchasing experience )

[tut]

Yes, McLaren gave a free upgrade, I think Kerry got one.

tut

[Callummarshall]

Mark...Seeing which way a Golf R went in an Elise 1.6 is not really the point IMHO. The Evora NA is a brilliant car and bought 2nd hand, amazing VFM. It wouldn't see which way a Golf R went either. Especially in the rain...

Of course you are right in some ways - the Elise has always been more about handling delicacy and driver involvement than outright pace. However, the point is that the whole market has moved on massively in performance but the base Elise really hasn't. In 1996 the hottest hot hatches had about 160bhp - now there any number of 300bhp+ hatchbacks, with Audi and Merc taking the game on to 400bhp. I expect the all new Elise will have at least a turbo 1.6 in the base car with over 200bhp, possibly with a hotter 2 litre turbo further up the range. It will be interesting to see where the engines come from though - any number of suitable lumps from GM, Ford or VW, but I am not sure what Toyota has available?

Not sure I could ever see a turbocharged powerplant in a lotus. TC cars require an intercooler, intercoolers need piping, ducting and moved in a good air stream, something the current platform struggles with. All in its not really worth it as you end up lugging round a heavy hot heatsoaked mess that isn't making anywhere near the power it should. That's without going into how the power is deliverd, TC gives a peak to output which in a lightweight, mid engined sports car with limited/no driver aids is less than ideal.

[Jam_s160]

They have taken 40kg off the Elise 250 Cup, that should please buyers who have just bought one.

tut

Always been the same issue year on year tbh. It will be interesting to see if current Cup owners are able to purchase the upgraded light weight parts? I'd be interested in the rear screen for example. I have the Freno carbon discs and pads on order saving 15kg over OEM. Just fitted a 2bular which saved 5kg over OEM. So have 20kg saved. The aero kit when not in carbon weighs a fair bit tbh (rear diffuser is 7.6kg alone). Tony was wise to hold out for the carbon aero kit on his Cup.

the other bits I have such as carbon seats, lighter battery etc. Don't have carbon access panel or roll over cover.

Id be amazed if the headline 40kg refers to the Elise 250 Cup (or even the supercharged 220S to be honest). I think this is another example of Lotus marketing. Looking at the specification of mine (with carbon aero) against the available parts for the Sprint I cant see how we could get another 40kg out of the car.... the roll over hoop/ engine cover, access panel, transom, etc are all savings in grams. I think there will be a bigger weight saving in the brakes and the front bumper (but that's approx. 20kg over mine?) By the time all of the aero pack is added to the Cup its easily heavier than a standard 1.6 anyway...

I've already made an enquiry to Lotus regarding some of the additional carbon bits - and I hope - with the strength of interest on the 'net which the Sprint parts has generated, that Lotus can find a way through their supply chain to offer all of these upgrades to existing owners. I admit to feeling a little pi55ed last week at the news of a revised Elise only 10 weeks after I collected mine and Id love a bit of foresight by dealers to better inform customers of what might be coming through the pipes..... I knew nothing about the Exige 380 for example which would have been firmly on my radar.

Anyway. on the subject of lightness.......One thing which I got thinking about at the weekend.... the whole air-con discussion again. Necessary to demist the windscreen - but a penalty of approx. 15-18kg. Could Lotus not develop a heated windscreen with elements instead? Surely the electrics would be substantially lighter than the a/c gubbins? (and potentially less likely to - or easier to - break/ fix?)

I've said this for many years over on Seloc, but I still wish Lotus would follow some sort of easy remove / modularity approach (sorry my LEGO heritage/back bone coming through) to it fast road / track specific cars. Nobody is doing this... On a number of occasions ive removed all the unnecessary bits for track days such as battery cover, stereo head unit, plastic trim, carpets, engine cover and even the passenger seat... just for track days usually. The minor weight saving is noticeable & inconvenient to do currently. I’m sure other things could be plug/play removed but I have not explored. Have a handy bag to slot it all into / store either on track or at your garage before leaving. Then put it all back in for the weekly drive or commute or Sunday drive in comfort. Don’t mind weight as long as it can be removed for track fun.