Lotus Elise Cup 250

[ryallm]

the current Elise is basically the same car as the S2 launched way back in late 2000.

In fact it's almost entirely different, ignoring the body shell itself which is obviously similar to the original S2 Elise. I think the car still appeals and it's not so unusual for a manufacturer to drag a model along for decades after it was first exciting, churning out specials and facelifts. How long have Mazda made the MX5, basically the same body shape and performance over all the models/years. Ford have made the Focus for a similar period.

It might not excite us much because we're so used to it, but it's still a very special car that attracts people who have not got a previous association with the brand and provides an entry level (well, a bit pricey, but entry level for the brand) model. An S3 Elise would probably generate some press interest and short term boost in customer interest, but would ultimately sit at the same place in the range and attract the same outsiders into the brand. Two years after its introduction it will just be the same as the current S2.

Releasing special editions generates more or less the same result as releasing an S3 Elise IMHO.

On another note I bet that we'll find the S3 Elise a disappointment - it will inevitably have too much weight and power and questionable styling (in the same way that the S1 Elise owners will tell you that the S2 has questionable styling).

Cheers,
Robin

I don't know how many parts are actually carried over from the S2 to the current model, but to the average buyer the exterior looks same, the interior looks and feels the same to sit in - for me it is pretty much the same car as my 2002 S2, albeit with a different engine and a lot of incremental development. I think the bigger issue for Lotus though is not the top end of the Elise range like this 250, it is the entry level. The current base Elise is a 30k+ car with a 1.6 134bhp Engine - yes it will still be a lot of fun to drive, but it now looks pretty weedy in an era of 300bhp hot hatches.

Agree on the likely reception of an all new S3 though - dogs bark, cats meow, and Lotus enthusiast moan than any new car is too heavy and doesn't look right

[C7Steve]

If Lotus could build another car like the S1, then I am sure that they would, but we are talking about a car which was built 20years ago. Euro emissions and safety standard requirements are night and day different from that time. I think that nearly everyone on here would be excited to see what Lotus plan to do with their next new type of car and it may be called something else instead of an Elise S3. The S1 is a great car for what it is and will be revered for years to come and in my eyes the chassis is a thing of beauty in design terms. What constitutes a classic car, is it 20years? I am not sure what is the general requirement for classic status. Remember the budget that Lotus have to work with compared to the main manufacturers.


Steve.

[BigD]

I personally think Lotus are doing exactly the right thing and they should stick with the current elise and regular small revisions. The new Exige or Evora 400 are very expensive so it's only right that the lower model remains otherwise there is no low entry point. Has it not been said before that the S1 elise was £25k when new so a £30k entry elise is a bargain imo.

I don't really see the point in them bankrupting themselves to develop a brand new Elise when they have a perfectly good platform already. If it's not broke don't fix it.

[Dominic]

I personally think Lotus are doing exactly the right thing and they should stick with the current elise and regular small revisions. The new Exige or Evora 400 are very expensive so it's only right that the lower model remains otherwise there is no low entry point. Has it not been said before that the S1 elise was £25k when new so a £30k entry elise is a bargain imo.

I don't really see the point in them bankrupting themselves to develop a brand new Elise when they have a perfectly good platform already. If it's not broke don't fix it.

The only thing is, I think that the entry level could use a few more ponies in the current marketplace.

[tonyg]

Has it not been said before that the S1 elise was £25k when new so a £30k entry elise is .

IIRC when i looked at an Elise in 1998 it was near enough £28k then.

[Ryan]

The current base Elise is a 30k+ car with a 1.6 134bhp Engine - yes it will still be a lot of fun to drive, but it now looks pretty weedy in an era of 300bhp hot hatches.

Powerful Hot hatches are not exactly cheap either. For a brand new golf r with 298ponies you are still closer to 40k than 30k after standard add ons.

Also anyone who stepped from a 300hp hothatch with FWD/4WD to an similarly powered RWD would have a lot to learn about driving in a short period of time just to keep it out the ditch.

[woody]

I personally think Lotus are doing exactly the right thing and they should stick with the current elise and regular small revisions. The new Exige or Evora 400 are very expensive so it's only right that the lower model remains otherwise there is no low entry point. Has it not been said before that the S1 elise was £25k when new so a £30k entry elise is a bargain imo.

I don't really see the point in them bankrupting themselves to develop a brand new Elise when they have a perfectly good platform already. If it's not broke don't fix it.

The only thing is, I think that the entry level could use a few more ponies in the current marketplace.

Sorry to disagree, but I think there are areas they could improve the existing platform a great deal; suspension geometry, entry, overall space, crash worthiness, incorporating more modern systems, design in features that have had to be added to the structure such as air con & charge coolers, design in improved assembly methods, design in a better level of quality, design in improved NVH etc... Any new design should be engineered to be easier/cheaper/quicker to manufacture & assemble.

There's a perception, rightly or wrongly, that a new current model elise dosen't move the game on significantly enough from what's already out there for current owners and doesn't address the reasons many never bough in the first place. An all new car, can at least do something to address these issues.

TBH, I think they've more chance of bankrupting themselves not developing something new.

[BigD]

I personally think Lotus are doing exactly the right thing and they should stick with the current elise and regular small revisions. The new Exige or Evora 400 are very expensive so it's only right that the lower model remains otherwise there is no low entry point. Has it not been said before that the S1 elise was £25k when new so a £30k entry elise is a bargain imo.

I don't really see the point in them bankrupting themselves to develop a brand new Elise when they have a perfectly good platform already. If it's not broke don't fix it.

The only thing is, I think that the entry level could use a few more ponies in the current marketplace.

incorporating more modern systems, design in features that have had to be added to the structure such as air con & charge coolers.

TBH, I think they've more chance of bankrupting themselves not developing something new.

The new elise has air con and a charge cooler does it not?

They do have new models, the Exige and the Evora; what's wrong with keeping the cheaper model going too?

[Shug]

incorporating more modern systems, design in features that have had to be added to the structure such as air con & charge coolers.

TBH, I think they've more chance of bankrupting themselves not developing something new.

The new elise has air con and a charge cooler does it not?

They do have new models, the Exige and the Evora; what's wrong with keeping the cheaper model going too?

I think what Woody is saying is that they are nailing stuff into a platform that was never originally designed for it. So they could potentially create a much lighter, more reliable and better engineered system with elements like that integrated, if they didn't have the mid 90s tub platform to work around. I bet even the loom is still a mishmash of part CANBUS, part old school, which they had to Frankenstein up when developing the Toyota engine variant originally...

The idea being that for some investment in a new platform that carries forward the ethos of the Elise, whilst not actually keeping any components, they could create a car that was cheaper to manufacture, lighter, able to be homologated worldwide easily, and a basis for another 20 years of development. I love the Elise, but even the latest ones feel old now. Having a new S as a courtesy car recently really rammed that home...

[Kelvin]

It's why I cancelled the Exige Roadster order too. I took it for a third test drive and while it was quick and sure footed it was ostensibly the same car from the driver's seat as my Elise SC. Here's the thing though. Had i gone ahead and bought it the depreciation would have been equal to my Elise SC. I figured this was going to be the case and decided it wasn't different enough to throw away the value of a perfectly good car.

If Lotus used the Evora platform, chopped out the middle and made it a two seater with a soft top or lift out panel (and changed the styling) then that is something that would really tempt me to buy new again. It would be 100kgs or more lighter, engine could be better positioned, a bit more boot space possibly, and a lot easier to live with day to day.

[Andy G]

lets all be thankful they are still in business.

Having a range of sports cars that goes from £30-90K is covering most bases.

Agree with some points said above, and i'd have loved the S3 to be more different (found it hard to justify £60k on a car that to sit in seems the same as the last one) but to drive the S3 Exige is a big step forward.

Quality of build or certainly fit and finish "looked" better when i saw the Evora 400.

The sweet spot for the Elise certainly for the Euro trips i thought was either a reliable S1 shed, 340R or SC Elise (lotus products anyway). So the Elise Cup 250 should be pretty much perfect.

Also starting to think I might not be the target audience anymore.

[Victor Meldrew]

My first thought was you won't get much better than an S1 Elise... then I realised, how many of them are still running standard shocks and brakes? Wont be on the same spec tyres either.. oh the exhaust thats been changed...

A basic unmodified in any way S1 would likely feel pretty shocking to to those of us who like to tinker..

So take one of the latest edition S2+ Elises and go play with the shocks, play with the ECU and stick on a better sounding exhaust and you probably won't be that far away from an ideal usable everyday Elise that most long term S1 owners would be happy to live with. I have met a few owners with the latest spec car who are more than happy with it. If Vicky had not risen from the ashes then I think that is the route I would have went to get back into lotus ownership.

The 250 Cup.. Wow.. But I might wait till next year for the 270 Cup..

[woody]

incorporating more modern systems, design in features that have had to be added to the structure such as air con & charge coolers.

TBH, I think they've more chance of bankrupting themselves not developing something new.

The new elise has air con and a charge cooler does it not?

They do have new models, the Exige and the Evora; what's wrong with keeping the cheaper model going too?

I think what Woody is saying is that they are nailing stuff into a platform that was never originally designed for it. So they could potentially create a much lighter, more reliable and better engineered system with elements like that integrated, if they didn't have the mid 90s tub platform to work around. I bet even the loom is still a mishmash of part CANBUS, part old school, which they had to Frankenstein up when developing the Toyota engine variant originally...

The idea being that for some investment in a new platform that carries forward the ethos of the Elise, whilst not actually keeping any components, they could create a car that was cheaper to manufacture, lighter, able to be homologated worldwide easily, and a basis for another 20 years of development. I love the Elise, but even the latest ones feel old now. Having a new S as a courtesy car recently really rammed that home...

Yup, that's what I was getting at shug.

[tonyg]

My 2016 Cup 220 (should've waited for the 250 damn ) is totally different (and better for it) in almost every way than my 2010 SC.So there has been loads of developement.

The fact has to be faced that new platforms for cars cost so much that even major companies are sharing platforms (Aygo/C1/108 for example).

And it was pretty much the price as a Golf R with options or the new Audi RS 3 (without options so probably another 10k by the time it's on the road).

But i have to add that one of the main reasons for buying it was to be different from (just about) every other car user on the road.

As a final point i (effectively) traded my 2010 car back to Murrays for £750 more than i paid for it 2 years earlier - try doing that with your hot hatch.

[Scotty C]

My 2016 Cup 220 (should've waited for the 250 damn ) is totally different (and better for it) in almost every way than my 2010 SC.So there has been loads of developement.

The fact has to be faced that new platforms for cars cost so much that even major companies are sharing platforms (Aygo/C1/108 for example).

And it was pretty much the price as a Golf R with options or the new Audi RS 3 (without options so probably another 10k by the time it's on the road).

But i have to add that one of the main reasons for buying it was to be different from (just about) every other car user on the road.

As a final point i (effectively) traded my 2010 car back to Murrays for £750 more than i paid for it 2 years earlier - try doing that with your hot hatch.

that's good to hear and I'm sure your can or even the 250 is a great all round track weapon.