The Referendum. SNP. Tories. Independence. Etc.

[Jeremy]

For me a lot has changed in the last 12 months.

With a very heavy heart I sold my home in Edinburgh and my business assets and made the move permanently to Norfolk. I won't say too much about my reasons for doing this but 100% politically driven and primarily over future uncertainty and also threats that I received.

I wasn't exactly a major employer (2 part time staff) so I won't be any great loss to Edinburgh society but it's sadness I feel rather than anger. I really hope things work out for Scotland in the long term. The elections next year will be a good indicator of what the medium term future holds.

Regards,

Jeremy

[Jeremy]

Thought the Anglian water deal in the paper this morning was interesting.

Indeed.

I only briefly read the facts but my view is that although I actually applaude the government for making this decision, I can't believe it's yet another unchecked example of their lies & double standards. Given how Scottish Water were cited in the White Paper.

Regards,

Jeremy

[j2 lot]

Damn- said I wasn't commenting further but agree with you Jeremy.
SNP/ Indy referendum has created a society divided,and not in a healthy way.
I am not a Corbyn supporter but I welcome his speech condemning the politics of hatred. One of the SNPs biggest faults is their willingness to slag everyone else's beliefs & policies at the expense of reasoned debate.

[pete]

You see I saw that on both sides and find it interesting that you think debates been stifled.

My experience was different, that it was the no side who weren't engaging in debate so perhaps both sides though the same "it's them others who are unreasonable - not us!"

I knew folk who had a strong no opinion but couldn't tell me why. I met some Yes campaigners who were, frankly, idiots. I'm not sure what my last statements contributed to it.

It doesn't matter who was right and who was wrong (and we can't know), but we can move forward.

[renmure]

For what it is worth, I can't see another referendum anytime soon for the simple reason that the same result would prevail, most likely with an increased majority. Putting aside the entrenched folk on either side of the debate, I can't see anything that has happened which would be likely to sway the middle-ground undecided folk to take the leap for independence this time round. I think that if there was to be a leap in the dark then it would have been taken last time round. The same big questions in relation to currency and economics would remain unanswered and probably unanswerable. The tumble in oil price (however that really effects the debate or not) is such a big warning sign that there are "events" which knock the best financial planning for six, particularly when the historic notion is that we will be rich "'cause it's oor oil, innit" that even some of the simpler minds will have to have a bit of a rethink.

[Rosssco]

I actually find it very interesting that some of you guys are saying along the lines of 'let's not go there'.

If there is a thread that is of no interest or relevance to me, such as the new puppy one, I just don't click on it rather than try to shut it down.

But the thing I find interesting is that this is symptomatic of the way politics in Scotland seems to have become with the rise of nationalism. Once upon a time it was quite common for working men to have a civil conversation about politics. The nationalists have this insular view where everything is black and white, and if your view differs you are ostracised or labelled as scum.

That's all very well but stifling any form of civilised discussion is a very unhealthy state of affairs and it's sad that this is what has become of our country. I totally get that for an easy life you just keep your mouth shut but I find it quite alarming that this is what Scotland has become.

Regards,

Jeremy

Well said Jeremy, I was considering posting something similar, along the lines of "why are people averse to discussing this?", but you said it better.

I understand that for many (on both 'sides') there is general relief that the process / vote is in the past, they voted with their best intensions, win or lose.. But the point on civil discussions on politics is an important one, as I feel many on the 'Yes' side (having been defeated fairly) are and will still cling onto their dream (fair enough), as given to them by the SNP and other nationalist groups. There is no room for compromise with this dream though, and therein the problem lies. The SNP will never, even if the case for independance was glaringly destroyed on all aspects (some would agrue it had been to a certain level, but that's opinion), they would still never realistically turn around and go "hey, actually, on balance, devolution within the UK is actually the best thing for the people of Scotland, so we'll work with that..". They would still persist, put a spin on, and lay blame on others

And that's why I personnally cannot stand them and their supporters - they have no room for polictical discussion and compromise that comes with it. And how good for a country is it to have a party like that in control of its parliament, its parlimentary oversight committies (no widely regarded as a joke), almost complete representation at UK level, and significant support at local level.. Political diversity is quickly dieing off in Scotland as the unthinking yellow mass creeps it way over the landscape (points for artistic licience? )

Left wing / right wing / centrist parties can move further left / right or whatever as a population demands, but the SNP and their nationalist affiliates can never really move their goal, only alter the pace towards it with different levels of populist policies.. Fundamentally I don't trust or like that. And they wonder why some have taken to likening the more extreme elements as facists (they are not in the literal sense of the term, but their lack of ability to think beyond the narrow confines independance, and label those that disagree politically as "inferior" indicates a not disimilar mindset).

[thinfourth]

For me a lot has changed in the last 12 months.

With a very heavy heart I sold my home in Edinburgh and my business assets and made the move permanently to Norfolk. I won't say too much about my reasons for doing this but 100% politically driven and primarily over future uncertainty and also threats that I received.

I wasn't exactly a major employer (2 part time staff) so I won't be any great loss to Edinburgh society but it's sadness I feel rather than anger. I really hope things work out for Scotland in the long term. The elections next year will be a good indicator of what the medium term future holds.

Regards,

Jeremy

The YES team will see this as a victory

1 NO voting scumbag out of the country

2 folk on the dole due to the actions of NO voting scum

[BiggestNizzy]

I can't see another Scottoish independance referendum unless their is a vote to leave Europe in the Uk independance referendum. My worry however is Scotland will get the sh*t end of the stick, the SNP can blame westmister for it's woes The conservative party don't need Scotland so it can ignore as much as it likes and blame any woes on the SNP. It goes both ways.

[Kelvin]

It's changed our intentions for the future. Our plan was to move back to Scotland in a few years but I can't see us ever moving back now sadly.

[tut]

Go on Kelv, come back up we all miss you.

Take the glass half full approach, I think that we will still be safe with a NO vote for the next "once in a generation referendum" if there is one, though that in itself is reason enough to trust them as far as you could hurl them.

tut

[Corranga]

I actually find it very interesting that some of you guys are saying along the lines of 'let's not go there'.

If there is a thread that is of no interest or relevance to me, such as the new puppy one, I just don't click on it rather than try to shut it down.

But the thing I find interesting is that this is symptomatic of the way politics in Scotland seems to have become with the rise of nationalism. Once upon a time it was quite common for working men to have a civil conversation about politics. The nationalists have this insular view where everything is black and white, and if your view differs you are ostracised or labelled as scum.

That's all very well but stifling any form of civilised discussion is a very unhealthy state of affairs and it's sad that this is what has become of our country. I totally get that for an easy life you just keep your mouth shut but I find it quite alarming that this is what Scotland has become.

Regards,

Jeremy

I guess this is different. You asked for opinions, and opinions you got. I am another of the people who don't really want to talk about it. It's not about a lack of interest in politics, nor abandoning our future etc. it's about the void it created in Scotland. I frown every time I see a YES sticker now, I know there are people out there who simply want to tea the UK apart. I also know my brother is one of them, and still attends YES events and constantly fills facebook with anti-everyotherparty crap that I have no time for. I see him, so passionate about something I'm so against, and I just want to move on.

Had the result gone the other way, this thread would be full of people screaming "We Won, screw all of you who voted No, and look how great things are" even if things were exactly as they are now.
The difference is that most No voters I know, don't want to stand up and proclaim victory. We stand in shame that our brothers and friends no longer look at us in the same way, and probably never will.

[rossybee]

I work with many different guys, from extremely varying backgrounds.

Some are very open about their passion towards the SNP and how they voted yes, for some odd reason moreso in front of English colleagues.

I don't voice my opinion in these circumstances now, as I have had so much verbal abuse for being a "NO" and really can't be bothered trying to justify my decision in a democratic vote.

It's embarrassing in front of English guys

[thinfourth]

I work with many different guys, from extremely varying backgrounds.

Some are very open about their passion towards the SNP and how they voted yes, for some odd reason moreso in front of English colleagues.

I don't voice my opinion in these circumstances now, as I have had so much verbal abuse for being a "NO" and really can't be bothered trying to justify my decision in a democratic vote.

It's embarrassing in front of English guys

As the whole movement is based on racism

And it has fcuk all todo with democracy

Scotland is screwed while the SNP and its victim card waving supporters are in a majority



Ever noticed how the YES idiots are always the victim of some conspiracy

[thinfourth]

Had the result gone the other way, this thread would be full of people screaming "We Won, screw all of you who voted No, and look how great things are" even if things were exactly as they are now.
The difference is that most No voters I know, don't want to stand up and proclaim victory. We stand in shame that our brothers and friends no longer look at us in the same way, and probably never will.

I would be posting from england and laughing at scotland going down the sh*t

Sad for those who could not escape but damn funny for those sitting awaiting their riches

[Mikie711]

Can we try an keep some balance to this thread.
Not all yes voters are raving nationalist idiots, at least I don't consider myself to be an idiot.
Likewise, not all no supporters were Rangers supporters.

There were/are extremists on both sides of the argument and as far as I am concerned it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with racism.

And currently I am not the victim of any conspiracy that I am aware of.

I do however think the No camp fought a very very clever campaign and the yes side dropped some monumental clangers that they never managed to recover from. That said there is no ill feeling from the people I know on both sides, life goes on. It was good fun while it lasted on our rig at least some very interesting "debates" were held but with no animosity.

There will, without doubt be another referendum. But not for a very long time and not until the public call for it. I doubt even a euro exit will cause it to happen.