VAG - Naughty

[Mikie711]

Depend on what the US tax vehicles based on (I don't know) . . . this is NOx emissions and not CO2, so in the UK there would be no revenue change. Bigger issue for VAG is that this effectively invalidates the type approval for the vehicle, and could, therefore, ban the cars from being used I think (as they have no type approval). The US also has longer warantee regulations which may not be achievable if all the emissions control tech is switched on all the time (it wears out). So, they are pretty screwed, even more so because they are Germans and this is in America . . . I believe all new sales of VW vehicles with the dodgy engines in the US are now stopped . . . the type approval issue may cross borders . . .

As for what VW technically did - it's very easy . . . modern ECU's have all the data needed to very simply profile this kind of testing . . . we did a load of work on the Dodge Viper V10 ECU . . . modern ECU's are very clever . . . . . . given it's so easy there is no technological barrier to stop any manufacturer from doing it whatsoever . . . just morals . . .

Read somewhere that it was Jetta, Beetle, Golf and Audi A3 models in the US from 2009 to 2015, and the Passat from 2014-15, had the devices which produced doctored results.

EFA

[fd]

Common engine across therm all.

The 'device' is purely a feature in the ECU software . . they could ( and may end up) just flashing them with new firmware . . but this may cause the cars to fail other US regulations . . catch 22 perhaps . . unless they start changing emissions control parts which may not fit the cars, etc, etc, etc . . oops . .

[robin]

Isn't it funny that this is such a big deal - surely every car has some degree of tailoring to pass the emissions tests - the only difference is that those cars might behave exactly the same way on the road as the test, if only you could reproduce the test conditions on the road (which you rarely can). These same cars could produce twice the noxious gasses under all other running conditions and nobody would care. Indeed the VW cars could well produce lower emissions overall on real world running.

Of course VW are in the wrong here and they will pay the price, but it does really raise the question - should emissions testing be carried out in a different way such that a fleet of cars are driven in real world use and their emissions measured like that. I know it would be hard (impossible) to make sure that the tests are fair, but maybe relaxing the pass criteria would compensate for that.

Cheers,
Robin

[Corranga]

Common engine across therm all.

The 'device' is purely a feature in the ECU software . . they could ( and may end up) just flashing them with new firmware . . but this may cause the cars to fail other US regulations . . catch 22 perhaps . . unless they start changing emissions control parts which may not fit the cars, etc, etc, etc . . oops . .

or be forced to meet all regulations by completely borking the performance of every car making the US Gov happy, and the consumer hate VW out of the US.

Someone else said that it's the tests that are flawed, I partially agree. It's a bit like going to university and the lecturer concentrating only on the things that they will put in the exams.
Sure, everyone gets a great pass mark, but do they really learn all that much?
Then bring into the equation that the VW way of teaching is to give the information only for the exam, which to me is more like walking into the exam with a copy of the answers already written on your arm. They fill in the blanks, and can never reproduce the information again..

Of course, if VW had to resort to this sort of thing to get through the tests, are the government set targets simply unattainable with current tech, and of course which other companies are doing the same?

Cars from 2009 are mentioned, is that when the regs changed, and did VW by any chance develop and launch the engine not long before that (making it economically impossible to develop another so soon?). Did the board sit down and think fines vs. chance of being discovered vs. everyone is doing it vs. engine redevelopment cost?

And finally, all this from a country that could really make a difference to the environment simply by sorting out their stupid tax laws on big engined heavy pick ups... (though admittedly this is more Co2 and not NOx I guess).

[rossybee]

I think the majority, if not all, of the other volume manufacturers' arses will be collapsing at the prospect of being similarly outed.....VW are being made an example of here, others shall follow....

[Scotty C]

[tut]

Think that I really should put a CAT on N3 to do my bit, oh hang on, China has been building two new coal fired power stations every week for the past decade, but now they will only be building one per week for the next ten years, so that is good news for the Planet's future and my concience.

tut

[ryallm]

Brilliant

[campbell]

I can extract stellar mpg from most vehicles, manufacturers can pay me to drive their latest models around a few weeks of each year and I'll log the real world results for all to see. No cheatin' here

[thinfourth]

Can i get a sticker for the works pool car

Cheat mode enabled?

[rawsco]

Never heard such a BS response blaming the software engineers....