The Debate

[kenny]

Agreed, but he (and his "party") are a one trick pony. They have probably been a fairly effective pressure group on immigration and the EU and will influence policy across the board which is no bad thing, but they do come across as BNP-lite at times.

Maybe so but a lot of people might just vote for them in the GE, it's entirely feasible that they will take many voters away from both the left and the right and pretty much ensure a hung parliament. I don;t see them as BNP lite. Shouting "racist" or "fascist" at Farage and hoping a few band-wagoners join in isn't going to cut it.

[Mr Momo]

Long day, with a 5am start, so all the droning sent me to sleep.

All three ladies did well, but have single-issue objectives to thank. I can only say that I wasn't imprssed by Ed or Nick Ed is Blair Jnr in style and Clegg was rambling.

[tut]

At present with Conservative and Labour running neck and neck at around 34%, whichever one gets the most seats, it looks as if none of the other parties will have enough seats to form a coalition that has a majority.

Lib Dems are going to get hammered, and UKIP and SNP will not have enough seats to swing it. So we could have a tut special, a three way session.

tut

[campbell]

I know I should care, but I'm not sure if I do. Eek. Is that voter apathy?

And where's my bl**dy postal vote papers? Grrrr.

[robin]

At present with Conservative and Labour running neck and neck at around 34%, whichever one gets the most seats, it looks as if none of the other parties will have enough seats to form a coalition that has a majority.

Lib Dems are going to get hammered, and UKIP and SNP will not have enough seats to swing it. So we could have a tut special, a three way session.

tut

Hi Tut,

We are likely to have a minority government where each issue and policy will be voted on according to party policy (or MP's whim). This might be a good thing ... or it might not (paralysis is possible outcome if the SNP demand too much in exchange for their support). The reason for this is simple - the SNP won't enter into any sort of arrangement with the Cons, so if the Cons get the most seats, a minority government is guaranteed. The other outcome is Lab getting most votes but then the SNP will only enter into supply+confidence arrangement, so on a day to day basis we will still have a minority government.

Given that Lab/Con cannot work together (beyond perhaps foreign policy), this seems to be inevitable outcome regardless of exactly how the votes fall.

The only way to "avoid" this would be to not vote SNP in the Scottish seats, but given their huge popularity since the independence vote, it's unlikely.

Cheers,
Robin

[tut]

I was thinking of voting SNP Robin, as a tactical vote against Labour.

I used to laugh at Countries like Italy with their multiple Coalitions, but it is not so funny when we could end up the same way.

tut

[rossybee]

I know I should care, but I'm not sure if I do. Eek. Is that voter apathy?

And where's my bl**dy postal vote papers? Grrrr.

I share this view....

...and no sign of my postal vote papers either


I cannot vote SNP with what they are promising to pay jobseekers allowance. No way José.

[Corranga]

Back on to the debate, my take seems a little different to some others on here:

Starting with the minorities:
Greens - The woman spouted facts, which is nice and all, but I don't have a clue how they would do anything. She's right, we need more money in the NHS, and we need less cuts in education, and we need to sort out the financial state and economy, but heck I could stand up there and say all that - oh other than the ludicrous we support an in out Euro referendum, but would waste time and money campaigning to stay in rather than run the country moment.

Plaid Cymru - she spoke about Wales a lot. It was interesting, but a wasted opportunity IMO to talk about bigger issues. She come across very much as I felt Nicola Sturgeon would. Wales, Wales, Wales...

UKIP - Farage is an absolute joke. I was embarrassed to be watching a leader of one of the 7 top political parties in my country talking about refusing medication to those with terminal diseases simply because they weren't born here.

SNP - Quote of the night was from Nicola Sturgeon - proof that politicians can speak the truth:

One of the things we've learned is that there isn't anything that Nigel Farage wouldn't blame on foreigners.

I think she came across very well. She held her own with the big 3 (can I even call them the big 3 nowadays?), stood up to Farage and pointed out that half of the things proposed by Miliband or Cameron were already implemented in Scotland.
Now, if they'd just move on from this independence thing, maybe we'd be getting somewhere..

Lib Dems - Clegg was probably the 2nd weakest of the bunch (after the Greens human encyclopaedia). It seemed that every time he opened his mouth it was either:
Look what we managed with the Conservatives in the last 5 years
or
No David, you're wrong, it should be this way around - {I need to demonstrate distance...}

Labour - Oddly, I think Miliband, between the awkwardness was the most committed / emotionally involved of them all (oddly..). He made his points well on the 2 or 3 occasions when he tried, rather than playing 2nd fiddle in a viola dual with Cameron the rest of the night.

Conservatives - Part of me expected Cameron to be above them all. 5 years leading the country on the world stage rather than just heading up a political party, but it didn't really work out that way. He stared into space a lot, and argued with Miliband, and, like Miliband, didn't really

So, who would I vote for - well. The easy answer is that 2 of them I'd dispel instantly as not fit for my needs - Wales and Inhuman
Another 2 can be quickly dismissed and not really saying a lot - Don't Really Know (Greens) and (there isn't even a quip for them) Lib Dems.
That leaves FREEDOM, The Society of Posh Boys for the Working Man and Tory, Tory, Tory.

I don't stand for Scottish Independence, which is a deal breaker for me, so we're back to the big 2.
Cameron thinks that holding an in/out referendum is a good plan, despite believing we should be in the Euro zone.
I think it's playing with fire and could seriously backfire on the country, which is pretty irresponsible imo (plus the same point made on the Greens earlier).

So, I'm down to Miliband. Hmm.

Luckily we can't actually vote for any of them directly

Of course, living in Dundee, it's all academic as SNP will win here. What Robin has said is right.
There is a certain irony that during the Indy Ref. the SNP argued about the Tories getting in when Scotland didn't vote for them, and now, there is a good chance it will happen BECAUSE of the SNP.

Chris

[woody]

Didn't get the chance to watch the whole thing, but actually found Clegg quite strong & possibly the most natural at TV debates (again).

Not sure anyone needs to paint Farage as a racist, he does an excellent job of it himself.

Milliband; surprisingly competent, but heavily practiced.

CMD; as expected.

Sturgeon; performed well, can't stand her. She's good at taking an issue at framing it to her argument, like a more successful flip side to the Farage coin.

[renmure]

SNP - Quote of the night was from Nicola Sturgeon - proof that politicians can speak the truth:

I think she came across very well. She held her own with the big 3 (can I even call them the big 3 nowadays?), stood up to Farage and pointed out that half of the things proposed by Miliband or Cameron were already implemented in Scotland.
Now, if they'd just move on from this independence thing, maybe we'd be getting somewhere..

Chris

Not meaning to appear to be going back on my praise of her, but she did have an open goal to aim for every time she had a kick at the ball and it is to her credit, she scored every time. She had no natural opponent on the platform, nobody was going to get into a tete-a-tete with her about any detail of Scottish politics (because in the grand scheme of last night's debate nobody else cared) so all she had to do was (a) appeal in some way to natural Labour voters in Scotland and (b) not come across like a nationalistic banshee to the whole UK population. She played a blinder on both fronts. I imagine Jim Murphy will have his head in his hands this morning.

I suspect it will be different when there is a more Scottish focused debate where her throw away remarks will be challenged and scrutinised more.. eg it is fine on national tv slapping down the bigger UK parties by throwing in the fact that there are no university tuition fees in Scotland, but there isn't some magical fairy dust that pays for the fact there are no fees, it is a political decision and the money that would have been raised does have to come from somewhere else.

Hey ho... only 33 days to go .......... groan!!

[campbell]

My postal vote confirmation turned up this morning. It'll soon be over and I can get back to the real world

[Corranga]

I suspect it will be different when there is a more Scottish focused debate

2 next week I think, one on ITV and another on the beep.

I sort of agree with what you have said, however there are still 59 seats up for grabs for any of the other candidates parties where someone is standing anyway. I suppose 59 is small fry compared to the seats in England of course.

From what I can see, Dundee East (my constituency) has lost the UKIP representative who gained less than 500 votes last time, but we do have someone standing for the Cannabis is Safer than Alcohol party..

[rossybee]

[robin]

LOL @Camocock ....

Do the Cannabis is Safer than Alcohol party have any policies?

Interestingly (or not, more likely) I had perused the UKIP web site and manifesto about 18 months ago and it was hilarious; beyond the normal immigration/eu ranting there was nothing ... now they have pages of policies that are not so easy to laugh at (that's not to say I could agree with many of them, but they are much more plausible).

Ironically I think they have grown up (a bit) and gone backwards (a bit more).

If only they had called themselves "Britain First" and not got involved with the whole immigration red herring then they might have actually made more of a go of it ....

I suspect Call Me Dave might call it quits long before the next again GE.

Cheers,
Robin

[tut]

Conservative - SNP Coalition.

tut