Lambo Huracan Crash

[tenkfeet]

What is the correct technique if your doing 150+ and you hit a bump in the road that upsets the car. Assuming the throttle is nailed do you keep the foot in or lift a bit?

I am not convinced the bump will upset the car if you're not holding onto the steering wheel unless it has no downforce at all ... in which case you are going to die, it is just a matter of time! The car has a huge amount of momentum and won't particularly want to change direction ... so the front wheels will tend to follow line of least resistance (up to a point).

Of course eventually you'll reach a point where steering input is required and at that point you need to keep the steering wheel correcting the spin until the rate of spin reverses (i.e. when the car hits a steady slide). You then have milliseconds to return the steering wheel to the straight ahead position keeping ahead of the car's return to the straight ahead. In an ideal world you beat the car to it and the car will recover without a pendulum swing to the other side. If you missed the straight ahead then the next swing needs to be smaller than the last or you're going to lose! So you need to counter steer (the other way, this time, of course), wait for the car to stop turning, return to the straight ahead ... etc. That's the theory - don't ask me to demonstrate it

If you watch the video BigD posted (awesome skillz, by the way) you can see initially the swings get bigger perhaps because at first he's making sure that he catches it and thus holds the wheel in counter steer a bit too long (or maybe the car regains grip suddenly for some other reason - clearly he's got a lot of feel that armchair rally drivers cannot see) ... as the swings amplify to needing more than a turn of lock he lets go of the wheel at the apex of the swing - the wheel rotates back to centre really quickly and from then on he has it under control (requires a few more swings before he can finally get it straight again).

So that's what you should do ...

P.S. I suspect he backs out of the throttle a little, but it would be a mistake to jump off the throttle at that speed as the weight transfer with the car anything but straight will cause the rear to lift, lost even more grip and complete rotation is guaranteed (I think). Enough throttle to keep the car maintaining speed is probably right, and in a 4WD it will (presumably) help pull the car straight. (He's probably flat the whole way, but he's a hero!).

Cheers,
Robin

In short crash. Excellent explanation Robin thanks. The IOM TT video is amazing once you understand what he is actually doing,his hands move so fast.

Last Walshy day I did showed a lack of ability when inducing violent oversteer at 40-50mph. Did not have enough space at Blyton Park so need to go to North Weald as I am told the Evora behaves differently at 90+. Think the Ring will be scratched off the to do list.

[rossybee]

I think this demonstrates what you should do., but try repeating it or explaining it.
http://youtu.be/9jSYiU-JdRw

Brilliant to see this again, thanks Donald

I think it's fair to say none of us would've managed that - unbelievable car control by Mark Higgins, especially when you view the steering inputs from inside the car.

And there's the difference in skill between professional rally driver and the rich fool with a green ball of italian metal.

[C7Steve]

I think this demonstrates what you should do., but try repeating it or explaining it.
http://youtu.be/9jSYiU-JdRw

Brilliant to see this again, thanks Donald

I think it's fair to say none of us would've managed that - unbelievable car control by Mark Higgins, especially when you view the steering inputs from inside the car.

And there's the difference in skill between professional rally driver and the rich fool with a green ball of italian metal.

Steve.

[robin]

I would lay money on Andy G. having held that also - but I agree most would not - and I would definitely have crashed

[robin]

Last Walshy day I did showed a lack of ability when inducing violent oversteer at 40-50mph. Did not have enough space at Blyton Park so need to go to North Weald as I am told the Evora behaves differently at 90+.

Recommended. Invaluable to give you some confidence but mostly it will teach you not to grip the wheel so tight and thus avoid a whole bunch of problems before they even happen. That's the really big difference, IMHO; the skills fade if you don't use them (I should know - I can barely drive to Sainsbury these days - I caught myself feeding the wheel the other day - is it because I am 50 this year?) - but the knowledge does not.

Think the Ring will be scratched off the to do list.

Value for money and insurance issues put to one side, you should go, you should drive it, but drive it like an unknown B-road - in one day you will learn some bits of the circuit and have some fun. Then never go back and live off the memory - that's the bit to get right

[tut]

"Then never go back and live off the memory - that's the bit to get right "

That is what I did and lived to tell the tale, despite trying to lap with Sabine and set the Restaurant Pistenklause on fire.

tut

[BigD]

P.S. I suspect he backs out of the throttle a little, but it would be a mistake to jump off the throttle at that speed as the weight transfer with the car anything but straight will cause the rear to lift, lost even more grip and complete rotation is guaranteed (I think). Enough throttle to keep the car maintaining speed is probably right, and in a 4WD it will (presumably) help pull the car straight. (He's probably flat the whole way, but he's a hero!).

Cheers,
Robin

I've looked closely at the in car footage and you can see what looks like a fairly large stab of left foot braking too so rather than coming off the gas and making the pendulum worse he probably is neutral on the throttle and adds a bit of left foot braking to stabilise the car. A lot going on and very skilful. This is something our resident racers (AndyG and Scotty) had mentioned in the past although I've not really tried it out in that situation yet.

[gambler]

Left foot braking was really useful in the Atom when I drove it at the experience days. It has very little steering lock so left foot braking could be used as traction control and attitude control in a drift and a good stab of it can get you back in line when things are getting a bit too squirly, It also helps get rid of understeer when I drove the Impreza. Scotty used a lot of left foot braking in the 211

Higgins is an absolute legend for that save. The momentum at that speed made it literally a life or death moment and an amazing catch

[GregR]

I think this demonstrates what you should do., but try repeating it or explaining it.
http://youtu.be/9jSYiU-JdRw

Feels slow going down Bray Hill

[robin]

The left foot braking is the opposite of a handbrake turn, effectively because you lock the front wheels and thus they start to slide (though how it works in a 4WD I don't know - presumably you can lock the fronts whilst powering the rears somehow). I've done it at Walshy's airfield but my brain is too slow to engage this technique on track automatically (i.e. when it would be useful ). If you do this sort of thing often enough it will become second nature, I am sure!

Cheers,
Robin

[mckeann]

I really struggled with the left foot brake to straighten the car in a slide. The trouble was you needed to give it enough brake to actually lock the front wheels, if you just gave it a little, it seemed to transfer weight to the. Front and actually increase the spin.

Robin, I guess we were just to gentle and delicate to mash the brake pedal like Andy, Scotty and Scott. Animals the lot of them

[gambler]

Robin, I guess we were just to gentle and delicate to mash the brake pedal like Andy, Scotty and Scott. Animals the lot of them

In the Atom, I never needed to actually lock up the fronts but you did have to give the brake pedal a good stab or it would just make things worse. In a 4WD car it was more of a gentle press on the pedal to shift a bit more weight to the front of the car mid corner to combat understeer. It also helps to ramp up the diffs.....whatever that means!

[rossybee]

I'd assume it helps confuse the 4wd/ESP computers into thinking the car is in a different state/attitude to what is actually happening?

[mckeann]

I tried a drill on a motorbike training course to lock the front wheel and try to slide it. I couldn't do it, my brain wouldn't let my fingers be so harsh on the lever. Eventually I got it to slide, but it's amazing how much your brain tries to protect you from such obviously bad things. So see, I must be smooth and gentle.

[alicrozier]

I tried a drill on a motorbike training course to lock the front wheel and try to slide it. I couldn't do it, my brain wouldn't let my fingers be so harsh on the lever. Eventually I got it to slide, but it's amazing how much your brain tries to protect you from such obviously bad things. So see, I must be smooth and gentle.

I did that on a MTB course - downhill on grass, lock up the front and see how far you can slide. Difficult to get your brain to actually do it the first time!
Teaches weight back and even pedal weighting...

edited to add it was surprisingly easy on a Euro spec rental bike (brakes levers are reversed!).